Cal Club Autocross Forums

I searched the classing guide but could not figure out whether or not after market clutches and flywheels were allowed in STX. If anyone could just give me a yes or no that would be very appreciated.

Taylor

Nope:(

Max Hayter wrote:Nope:(

Agreed, and no one can explain why since it would actually save competitors money.

Well, not exactly nope...You can use a non OE clutch that is OE equivalent. It must be same same though, no performance benefit.

Aaron Goldsmith wrote:Agreed, and no one can explain why since it would actually save competitors money.

The counter argument on that is as soon as clutches and flywheels are free and your competition replaces theirs, you'll have to replace yours to remain competitive... whether it's working fine or not.

Some of us are crazy or fortunate enough to do our own work. The cost of a clutch and flywheel in that case is around $500-$700.

For the competitor who has to pay for the work to be done, they'll be spending $1200 - $1500.

So which way is more affordable overall for the category?

Mike

Mike Simanyi wrote: Some of us are crazy or fortunate enough to do our own work. The cost of a clutch and flywheel in that case is around $500-$700.

For the competitor who has to pay for the work to be done, they'll be spending $1200 - $1500.

Those are BMW prices. About half for kars nicht von Deutschland.

Mike Simanyi wrote:

Aaron Goldsmith wrote:Agreed, and no one can explain why since it would actually save competitors money.

The counter argument on that is as soon as clutches and flywheels are free and your competition replaces theirs, you'll have to replace yours to remain competitive... whether it's working fine or not.

Some of us are crazy or fortunate enough to do our own work. The cost of a clutch and flywheel in that case is around $500-$700.

For the competitor who has to pay for the work to be done, they'll be spending $1200 - $1500.

So which way is more affordable overall for the category?

Mike

I don't see the arms race on this one, why would you need to change your clutch to stay competitive, unless it's slipping and needs to get changed anyway? Ask the STU Evo's that are on their 5th clutch.

Aaron Goldsmith wrote:[

I don't see the arms race on this one, why would you need to change your clutch to stay competitive, .

Stock clutch/flywheel 50lbs
Aftermarket 30lbs, or 10lbs if you want to go really crazy. Who wouldn't dump 20-40lbs of rotating mass if allowed to?

Aaron Goldsmith wrote: I don't see the arms race on this one, why would you need to change your clutch to stay competitive, unless it's slipping and needs to get changed anyway? Ask the STU Evo's that are on their 5th clutch.

You don't see how a lighter or stronger clutch/pressure plate/flywheel combo is an advantage? So you save the guys who CHOOSE to run an Evo a few bucks by giving them a stronger part, but cost those who have perfectly adequate OE parts money because they need the lighter parts to keep up.

Every car has its own strength and weakness. Want your Evo clutch to last, don't launch so hard.

Eric Clements wrote:

Aaron Goldsmith wrote:[

I don't see the arms race on this one, why would you need to change your clutch to stay competitive, .

Stock clutch/flywheel 50lbs
Aftermarket 30lbs, or 10lbs if you want to go really crazy. Who wouldn't dump 20-40lbs of rotating mass if allowed to?

Never said anything about aftermarket flywheels. Flywheel going into the supra is 14 pounds, stock one is 38. Lightened flywheels are a performance advantage.

Aaron Goldsmith wrote: Never said anything about aftermarket flywheels. Flywheel going into the supra is 14 pounds, stock one is 38. Lightened flywheels are a performance advantage.

Mike did!

Jason Isley BS RX8 wrote:

Aaron Goldsmith wrote: I don't see the arms race on this one, why would you need to change your clutch to stay competitive, unless it's slipping and needs to get changed anyway? Ask the STU Evo's that are on their 5th clutch.

You don't see how a lighter or stronger clutch/pressure plate/flywheel combo is an advantage? So you save the guys who CHOOSE to run an Evo a few bucks by giving them a stronger part, but cost those who have perfectly adequate OE parts money because they need the lighter parts to keep up.

Every car has its own strength and weakness. Want your Evo clutch to last, don't launch so hard.

Again never said lighter, never had an aftermarket clutch (disc and pressure plate) that was much lighter (if at all) than stock. From what I understand, once you fix the clutch slipping/failing on the evo the transfer case breaks, so for them.. maybe not a great idea. Still don't see why aftermarket clutches aren't allowed.

Aaron Goldsmith wrote: Again never said lighter, never had an aftermarket clutch (disc and pressure plate) that was much lighter (if at all) than stock. From what I understand, once you fix the clutch slipping/failing on the evo the transfer case breaks, so for them.. maybe not a great idea. Still don't see why aftermarket clutches aren't allowed.

You need to look harder, there are lighter clutch/pressure plate combos that will fit an OE flywheel, not as big of an improvement but in a sport where a win can be by .001 it all helps. Cost everyone in the class $500+ to help a few guys? No thanks.

Jason Isley BS RX8 wrote:

Aaron Goldsmith wrote: Again never said lighter, never had an aftermarket clutch (disc and pressure plate) that was much lighter (if at all) than stock. From what I understand, once you fix the clutch slipping/failing on the evo the transfer case breaks, so for them.. maybe not a great idea. Still don't see why aftermarket clutches aren't allowed.

You need to look harder, there are lighter clutch/pressure plate combos that will fit an OE flywheel, not as big of an improvement but in a sport where a win can be by .001 it all helps. Cost everyone in the class $500+ to help a few guys? No thanks.

Super light wheels cost way more than that and they're legal, and have arguably much more effect on performance than a slightly lighter pressure plate. The performance advantage is so negligible that I can't see a reason to swap one out before you were doing a clutch anyway, or you already had the tranny off.. in which case you might want to replace the clutch as a preventative measure.

Aaron Goldsmith wrote: Super light wheels cost way more than that and they're legal, and have arguably much more effect on performance than a slightly lighter pressure plate. The performance advantage is so negligible that I can't see a reason to swap one out before you were doing a clutch anyway, or you already had the tranny off.. in which case you might want to replace the clutch as a preventative measure.

I don't need a mechanic to install the wheels on my car, and the wheels are not a wear item so I can sell them when I am done with the car. Wheels also don't potentially pose a problem to my transmission warranty - dealers will look for any excuse not to cover a trans, aftermarket clutch is a great one.

Just because you don't see a reason doesn't mean others won't, often perception is a bigger (and more costly) problem than reality. People have cheated on smaller things, so don't think they wont do something that is legal, no matter how small the effect.

Jason Isley BS RX8 wrote:

Aaron Goldsmith wrote: I don't need a mechanic to install the wheels on my car, and the wheels are not a wear item so I can sell them when I am done with the car. Wheels also don't potentially pose a problem to my transmission warranty - dealers will look for any excuse not to cover a trans, aftermarket clutch is a great one.

It's for ST Jason. If you're prepped to the ST rules, you've got much bigger warranty issues than an aftermarket clutch.

Aaron, the OP mentioned clutch **and flywheel**. 99.44% of the time someone mentions that combo, they're talking about a lighter setup than stock.

thanks for all the responses. i was hoping it was legal to use a lighter flywheel in the distant future once my clutch is burnt up, but if its not guess i gotta stay honest and use the OE setup, which isn't all bad.

Since flywheels often need to be resurfaced when replacing the clutch ... it is legal to aggressively resurface the flywheel ... there by lightening it a little bit.

Someone told me that a heavier flywheel is a plus for ProSolo's ... since it transfers more energy at the all important start ... probably especially in an AWD car which can handle the extra power without just spinning it's wheels excessively.

Mako Koiwai wrote:Since flywheels often need to be resurfaced when replacing the clutch ... it is legal to aggressively resurface the flywheel ... there by lightening it a little bit.

As with anything in stock/ST, only if it is listed in your FSM as an OE repair method. For my C4 Corvette this was not an option, so $1000 (retail) for a new dual-mass flywheel was the only choice.