Cal Club Autocross Forums

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:12 pm**

Now that Guy is gone from ProParts, where's a good (e.g. trustworthy/good quality) LA-area place to go for new shocks? I have a friend who drives a 93 Camaro that's got completely dead dampers. I don't think it's worth rebuilding the existing them as they're POSes. Anyone got a guy? Preferably close to Pasadena?

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:12 pm**

Guy will probably go back to doing his private business of "doing" shocks ... ask him. I'll tell him to check out this thread.

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:32 pm**

Kurt Rahn wrote:Now that Guy is gone from ProParts, where's a good (e.g. trustworthy/good quality) LA-area place to go for new shocks? I have a friend who drives a 93 Camaro that's got completely dead dampers. I don't think it's worth rebuilding the existing them as they're POSes. Anyone got a guy? Preferably close to Pasadena?

Regardless if Guy is with us or not, ProParts can still help you out with your shock dynos, rebuilds, revalves and custom work. If you have any questions you can e-mail me at jeffw at propartsusa.com and I will make sure you are taken care of one way or another.

Posted: **Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:34 am**

Guy told me he doesn't/can't do Koni work "on his own."

But he can do normal and custom work on shocks from say Penske, JRZ, Moton

Posted: **Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:44 am**

Mako Koiwai wrote:Guy told me he doesn't/can't do Koni work "on his own."

But he can do normal and custom work on shocks from say Penske, JRZ, Moton

Koni only sells parts to authorized shops, like Pro Parts.

Posted: **Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:24 pm**

Mako, do you have his email or phone #? Like I said, what's on his car are POSes. He'd likely be getting new shocks, and he's not an autocrosser, so he wouldn't care if they were Konis or not. Thanks!

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:42 pm**

Hi Kurt,
Guy deals in hi-end custom stuff. Sounds like your friend would be better off with Koni yellows or Bilstein HD/sports. Try Shox.com for mail order.

Rick

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:56 pm**

Richard Jung wrote:Hi Kurt,
Guy deals in hi-end custom stuff. Sounds like your friend would be better off with Koni yellows or Bilstein HD/sports. Try Shox.com for mail order.

Rick

I agree with RIck. Koni or Bilstein's off the shelf stuff is great for a street car.

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:59 pm**

yup ... sent him the links to the huge amount of Tire Rack info on Koni's last night.

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:46 pm**

Cool. Thanks, guys!

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:12 pm**

I'd recommend Bilsteins over Konis for street use. 4 out of 5 dentists agree with me 99 44/100% of the time.

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:15 pm**

Mike Simanyi wrote:I'd recommend Bilsteins over Konis for street use. 4 out of 5 dentists agree with me 99 44/100% of the time.

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:36 pm**

Mike Simanyi wrote:I'd recommend Bilsteins over Konis for street use. 4 out of 5 dentists agree with me 99 44/100% of the time.

+1, the Bilsteins will last longer too.

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:50 pm**

Mike Simanyi wrote:I'd recommend Bilsteins over Konis for street use. 4 out of 5 dentists agree with me 99 44/100% of the time.

I drive everyday on Konis and my teeth are fine...

...OK there's the sterility thing but really do we need more of my genes runnin' around?

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:33 am**

When I put Bilsteins on my old Crown Vic, they transformed the car. Of course I have no Konis to compare it to and I was riding on shocks with 140,000 miles of police abuse before, but Bilstein still gets an A+ in my book.

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:59 am**

+1 on the Bilsteins. Best choice for the street. $429 from shox.com, shipped, plus tax. Don't even bother with the Japanese brands, or most US brands either.

The Jeep is on Monroe Reflex (sort of like Bilsteins), but they work too well to change (and I don't have the extra $300 sitting around... too many other things I need). The 3 needs new struts (at least it does when autocrossed), but I'm up in the air what to buy. Bilstein makes both HD and Sport struts, but only for the front (at least on Tire Rack). Koni makes sports, but also does FSDs, and we only race it a couple of times a year (and not even on "good" street tires). I'm leaning towards the FSDs, but I've had such good luck with the Bilsteins.

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:25 am**

Can't find the Nasioc message board article written by a racing shock rebuilder, but he noted that the german shocks (Bilstein) tend to be the most consistent and repeatable in their settings, especially for the price.

The Koni FSD technology sounds interesting, especially for a daily driver. Intriguing that the McLaren F1 race cars use a version of it.

See McLaren PDF link on the left hand side: http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/susp ... Damper+Set

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:18 am**

Mako Koiwai wrote:The Koni FSD technology sounds interesting, especially for a daily driver. Intriguing that the McLaren F1 race cars use a version of it.

See McLaren PDF link on the left hand side: http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/susp ... Damper+Set

F1 cars run one shock on each end of the car? How do they keep the car from rotating on its longitudinal axis? I must be seeing something wrong.

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:23 am**

F1 cars run one shock on each end of the car? How do they keep the car from rotating on its longitudinal axis? I must be seeing something wrong.

You're thinking something wrong. Except for strut equipped cars, shocks don't locate anything.

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:38 am**

John Coffey wrote:
F1 cars run one shock on each end of the car? How do they keep the car from rotating on its longitudinal axis? I must be seeing something wrong.
You're thinking something wrong. Except for strut equipped cars, shocks don't locate anything.

I'm not focused on the locating part. forgetting shock, if a single spring is used between the two pushrods, how does an upward force on the left tire not translate into a downward force on the right tire? I know there is something more to this - the picture isn't that detailed to see what all is happening. I'm just curious what controls roll if the spring/shock combo is floating between the two pushrods.

I did find this comment after googling for a minute:

Active suspension was the most advanced form of suspension that we have seen in F1. It was basically a glorified hydraulic levelling device that kept the bottom of the car a constant distance from the track by allowing wheels on one side of the car to react to suspension movements on the other side of the car. Since active suspension was banned, designers have been looking for ways to achieve with mechanical devices with what they used to achieve with hydrauilics.

One of the earliest attempts was to connect the fron pushrods through a crosover bellcrank. As a front wheel rises over a kerb, it allows the wheel on the other side to be braced and helps to level the car out by preventing the offside of the car from falling away from the corner. This method gives a fixed gearing accross the bellcrank of 1:1. It is rumoured that some development has been done with replacing the belcrank with a small gearbox with several settings inside. This would allow the driver to select a suspension mapping before entering a corner to give greater or less than a one to one mapping. It is very important that with this type of arrangement that the driver remembers to select the correct mapping for a straight section of track. Otherwise if a greater than 1:1 ratio is selected and a bump is encountered, the opposite wheel will react and 'jump' the car sideways. This is what is thought happened with Kimi at Monza.

so maybe this is intentional.

reading at http://www.constructorsf1.com/modules.p ... le&sid=479" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I can see that there are two springs (torsion bars) in this design, but I've also read that torsion bars are falling out of favor? Man it would be cool to just hang around the mechanics/engineers for a few weeks to watch/ask questions. The minutia that is important to them must be staggering.

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:41 am**

Most formula and prototype sports racing cars don't have the damper/spring connected directly to the control arms. It's a lever system, and looking at the MP-4/23, a rather complex one. Some F1 cars don't use coil springs either, using a transverse leaf, the current Renault I think has that up front.

More on-topic, sometimes the choice of replacement dampers/struts is limited. A few years ago when I changed the struts on my wife's Outback the only brand I could find was KYB.

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:10 am**

KJ Christopher wrote:Man it would be cool to just hang around the mechanics/engineers for a few weeks to watch/ask questions. The minutia that is important to them must be staggering.

Then you want to subscribe to Racecar Engineering:

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:43 am**

Will Kalman wrote:
KJ Christopher wrote:Man it would be cool to just hang around the mechanics/engineers for a few weeks to watch/ask questions. The minutia that is important to them must be staggering.
Then you want to subscribe to Racecar Engineering:

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Holy crap. $110 for an one year subscription?

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:07 am**

KJ Christopher wrote:
Will Kalman wrote:
KJ Christopher wrote:Man it would be cool to just hang around the mechanics/engineers for a few weeks to watch/ask questions. The minutia that is important to them must be staggering.
Then you want to subscribe to Racecar Engineering:

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Holy crap. $110 for an one year subscription?

British mag; mostly you're paying for air mail so you don't get each issue 2 mos. late.

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:14 am**

KJ Christopher wrote:Holy crap. $110 for an one year subscription?

It's imported from England. I've seen deals for less than $90. Even $110 is less than $10 an issue which isn't bad considering many technical mags on the stand are $5+. It's a real industry mag, not fluff or entertainment.

I'll look to see if I can find a blow-in subscription card with a deal on it and pass it along to you.

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