Cal Club Autocross Forums

I took my 1974 2.0 914 out on Sunday after being on jack stands for 2.5 years. While I didn't really intend it for Solo racing I had a blast. I need some help classing it though as it's been slightly modified.

The only mods are as follows:

Went from F.I. to carbs
Cam for carbs (vs. F.I. specific cam)
Went up to 96mm bore (vs. 94mm)
slightly uprated rear springs and front torsion bars

Obviously if that puts me in SM2 or something insane, forget about it... But if I could be in a class that the car could actually have a chance at getting in the top 10 (regardless of the loose nut behind the wheel) it could be fun to work on my driving skills. Tom Berry, while talking and pointing (guy is great...) turned a 64 something in it for reference.

Opinions?

Thanks.

-Aaron

I'd say run Historic Class, those guys are a lot of fun. Check with them on what sub-class they'll let you run in, since they tend to bend to rules a little to fit the order cars in, ie. the V dubs. I'm sure they'll chime in.

I take it you also changed the shocks, which is fine in pretty much every class.

Tom was saying that the car was a fun drive. ;)

Yeah... Sorry. I was pointing out the things I knew would change my class.

It's had every component gone through. Including:

Pagid Orange Pads
Koni Red's in Back
Koni Yellows in Front
Replacement bushings in the rear trailing arms

But I didn't think from what I've read those would be of consequence in the class I'd end up in after the motor work... How do I check with the Historic gang?

Aaron,

The Historic class will be running in the first run-group at the December event, with Doug's help I'm sure we can find a class.

The time Tom posted in your car will be your bench mark, forget the rest of us in the class.

See you there.

David Barrish

Sounds great. Real excited too... I got within a little under 4 seconds of his time on my last run. Can't wait to meet up with him again!

Over bore is the issue. I believe that would be SM2. Rebuild bores are often okay (there are rules defining this), but 2mm is more than a rebuild. Otherwise, alternate throttle intakes are SP.

Jay W

DSP is close. But you changed cams. And you have a 2mm overbore and the limit is 1.2mm (.0472"). Although, I'd imagine you're talking aftermarket bores that probably aren't SP legal as opposed to boring out the stock holes.

That means SM2, XP, or FP. Not sure about FP engine rules.

SCCA rules aren't friendly. But its still fun to run a car like that. We have a local catchall class. Go show up those slow Z cars.

That car is super clean, nice!

Yeah... It's tough though. The stock cam is only compatible with the stock Bosch Analog F.I. - and not very good at that. The stock F.I. has a part that is almost un-obtaniom, so you are destined to go aftermarket F.I. ($$$) or Carbs ($$) at some point. Again, it comes down to money on the P&C's. You can bore the stock ones to 96mm and buy new pistons for about 2X the price of buying cheap aftermarket 96mm P&C. The compression I wanted would have dictated custom pistons for the stock bore. It's tough to keep these cars on the road and totally stock AND race them. Just doesn't mix...

Hopefully we can get me somewhere that makes sense... Sure would be nice if they did it like sailing. Simply start everybody at a baseline for the vehicle and then start adjusting until everyone *should* be equal. There is no way this car will be competitive in even Historic DSP I would guess. Can I have my own class...? ;)

I think you can run Historic SM with an invitation.

Some thoughts about Historic and SCCA.
The Historic class is a local CSCC (LA Cal Club) PAX class for older cars. Historic as a class is not recognized in other regions. Local clubs like CSCC have a few extra local classes that are not nationally recognized. The local Historic class has been growing because many of the class participants are recruiting and encourage participation. Many of the cars in Historic are traditional 60s and lately some mid 70s sports cars (by invitation) that are no longer competitive in SCCA stock classes. In recent years SCCA has proposed classing changes to discourage and even prevent pre 1985 cars from competing in any SCCA national event. The older stock cars are difficult to maintain and many of the parts are difficult to find or the parts are expensive. This is part of the justification for retiring the older stock cars. Most of the older pre 1985 “stock looking” cars fall into SCCA Street Prepared or SM classes because of spring, camber, wheel or intake modifications / upgrades that are popular or needed. Cam upgrades are popular on many older cars too but a cam change of any kind will put your car in SM or Prep classes. For many drivers it takes years to develop a good SP car unless you have a lot of time and money. Many SP drivers get discouraged when SCCA makes rule changes that render SP projects obsolete. With the addition of SCCA ST classes local Street Prepared class participation is on the decline with the acceptation of CSP (MX5 class). Many newer SP cars moved to ST and many of the older SP cars are no longer competitive as the AWD cars and increased HP cars take over many of the top spots in SP.
As the economy fails, tire prices sore and people look for more fun and inexpensive ways to race (running a fun to drive $500 sports car instead of a new $50,000 car) SCCA is making it more difficult. This is why we are seeing more desire and increased participation in local less expensive classes like SK and even historic class.

Oh! I though the "Historic Class" referred to the car drivers not the vehicles. I guess I'll stop waiting for my invitation...

I've always had a thing for Scirocco's... I guess I'd be game for Historic SM. I'll get slaughtered, but what the hell. How do I go about getting an invite?

John Coffey wrote:Oh! I though the "Historic Class" referred to the car drivers not the vehicles. I guess I'll stop waiting for my invitation...

Maybe you're over-qualified! }:)

Aaron McKinnon wrote:I've always had a thing for Scirocco's... I guess I'd be game for Historic SM. I'll get slaughtered, but what the hell. How do I go about getting an invite?

I've always had a thing for 914's... I LOVE YOUR 914.

Show up at 7:00 AM at the next Sunday event and we will work it out.
Next year we may make some good changes to the class.

Aaron,

What are you using for tires?

David Barrish

Oh! I though the "Historic Class" referred to the car drivers not the vehicles. I guess I'll stop waiting for my invitation...

So was that you in the 350z that I passed at the last SV event in my HISTO car??? Yeah we may be old but still just want to have fun....

Aaron McKinnon wrote:Yeah... It's tough though. The stock cam is only compatible with the stock Bosch Analog F.I. - and not very good at that. The stock F.I. has a part that is almost un-obtaniom, so you are destined to go aftermarket F.I. ($$$) or Carbs ($$) at some point. Again, it comes down to money on the P&C's. You can bore the stock ones to 96mm and buy new pistons for about 2X the price of buying cheap aftermarket 96mm P&C. The compression I wanted would have dictated custom pistons for the stock bore. It's tough to keep these cars on the road and totally stock AND race them. Just doesn't mix...

Hopefully we can get me somewhere that makes sense... Sure would be nice if they did it like sailing. Simply start everybody at a baseline for the vehicle and then start adjusting until everyone *should* be equal. There is no way this car will be competitive in even Historic DSP I would guess. Can I have my own class...? ;)

I know completely. I had a '70 with the larger aftermarket bores, cam, compression, worked heads, and a Holley/Weber two barrel. It had a lot more suspension work. Really fun little canyon carver. I really don't think that car can be made stock legal. The 70 really didn't run from the factory with the Bosch FI.

Currently I have some old Falken 215's - 205-50-15 (I think that's the size...) on stock Mahle 4 Lug, 2 Liter rims.

Aaron McKinnon wrote:Went from F.I. to carbs
Cam for carbs (vs. F.I. specific cam)

Are these purely aftermarket, or are they off another 914 engine (or OE replacement)?

Jay W

Jayson Woodruff wrote:

Aaron McKinnon wrote:Went from F.I. to carbs
Cam for carbs (vs. F.I. specific cam)

Are these purely aftermarket, or are they off another 914 engine (or OE replacement)?

Jay W

914 never came with carbs. it was either the F-jet or the D-jet. you have very little options W/R/T FI on the old type-4 motor. that's why a lot of people went to carbs due to the vastly more available (and developed) market with the bugs.

Aftermarket. There is only one cam made by VW for this motor - and it's only made to work with the original F.I. The cam is made by WebCam for Jake Raby of MassiveType4 fame.

L-Jet on the 1.8's and D-Jet on the 1.7's and 2.0's

blah. minor technicality..

i only played with the D-jet. which was decidedly INSUFFICIENT to run 14psi.

We'll have a new local class available for you in '09: CST, or California Street Touring.

It operates under our current CSM rules but with the requirement of 140+ treadwear tires. Sounds like it could be a fun fit for you.

Mike

Yeah, just watch out for those vettes and Loti.

Jay W

Mike Simanyi wrote:It operates under our current CSM rules but with the requirement of 140+ treadwear tires. Sounds like it could be a
fun fit for you.