Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

If you're new to autocross, new to the forum or need a hand with what class you should be in, ask for help here.

Moderators: Mike Simanyi, Leonard Cachola

User avatar
Jayson Woodruff
Posts: 1754
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: PSCC
Car#: 51

Re: New and would like some help with classing

Post by Jayson Woodruff »

Steve Ekstrand wrote:BTW-the sound thing is sort of a bluff...
Keep in mind that San Diego's is not though. 93dB @ 50Ft, toughest in the country and 93.1 will get you a DNF.

Jay W
User avatar
Jamie Lessie
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:37 am

Re: New and would like some help with classing

Post by Jamie Lessie »

Jayson Woodruff wrote:
Steve Ekstrand wrote:BTW-the sound thing is sort of a bluff...
Keep in mind that San Diego's is not though. 93dB @ 50Ft, toughest in the country and 93.1 will get you a DNF.

Jay W
Hopefully someone can verify on Saturday that the MR2 is less then 80db @ 50 feet. I still think it is louder then that but the db meter we used is very accurate, at least it has been in the past. Maybe it is because the sound is so high pitched? Or maybe because the open exhaust lets out under the car rather then behind it, so I can hear it very well when I drive.
http://www.freewebs.com/rotaryinfo/bewa ... rotary.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
User avatar
KJ Christopher
Executive Board Member
Posts: 2818
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:29 am
Club: No$
Car#: 11
Location: Redondo Beach, CA

Re: New and would like some help with classing

Post by KJ Christopher »

Jamie Lessie wrote:
Jayson Woodruff wrote:
Steve Ekstrand wrote:BTW-the sound thing is sort of a bluff...
Keep in mind that San Diego's is not though. 93dB @ 50Ft, toughest in the country and 93.1 will get you a DNF.

Jay W
Hopefully someone can verify on Saturday that the MR2 is less then 80db @ 50 feet. I still think it is louder then that but the db meter we used is very accurate, at least it has been in the past. Maybe it is because the sound is so high pitched? Or maybe because the open exhaust lets out under the car rather then behind it, so I can hear it very well when I drive.
My guess is you're right. I doubt you were doing hard brake, hard turn, full throttle in the church parking lot. And a lot depends on where the sound meter is set up. I've heard of several cars tripping the limit with the CAI, a source of noise I hadn't previously considered.
kj
Use the email link. I don't read nor get notified of PMs.
Former No$ Club Rep | Former SCCA Area 11 Director |Former CSCC Solo Chair
Caged Z Motorsports - automotive consultation
The ACME Special Now with Super Speed Vitamins
User avatar
Jamie Lessie
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:37 am

Re: New and would like some help with classing

Post by Jamie Lessie »

KJ Christopher wrote: My guess is you're right. I doubt you were doing hard brake, hard turn, full throttle in the church parking lot. And a lot depends on where the sound meter is set up. I've heard of several cars tripping the limit with the CAI, a source of noise I hadn't previously considered.
CAI?
http://www.freewebs.com/rotaryinfo/bewa ... rotary.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
User avatar
Curt Luther
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:27 am
Club: PSCC
Car#: 9
Location: Lookin' in Mike's cooler for "water" ;)...and my underwear
Contact:

Re: New and would like some help with classing

Post by Curt Luther »

Jamie Lessie wrote:
KJ Christopher wrote: My guess is you're right. I doubt you were doing hard brake, hard turn, full throttle in the church parking lot. And a lot depends on where the sound meter is set up. I've heard of several cars tripping the limit with the CAI, a source of noise I hadn't previously considered.
CAI?
Cold Air Intake
Rev. Dr. Curtis J. Luther, Esq., M.D.
User avatar
Steve Ekstrand
Solo Safety Steward
Posts: 7482
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: CASOC
Car#: 15
Location: This space left intentionally blank
Contact:

Re: New and would like some help with classing

Post by Steve Ekstrand »

We theorized that the CAI was the source of the sound of satan unleashed by the furious gay rage civie. So, we went with a short ram to keep the scream under the hood....

I talk to Dr. Jason and he tells me they had trouble with the short ram making too much noise....

Its hard to contain these 11 to 1 compression big cam 10K rpm monsters.... }:) }:) }:) }:) }:) }:) }:)
Dr. Conemangler
aka The Malefic One
2015 Wildcat Honda F600
User avatar
Curt Luther
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:27 am
Club: PSCC
Car#: 9
Location: Lookin' in Mike's cooler for "water" ;)...and my underwear
Contact:

Re: New and would like some help with classing

Post by Curt Luther »

Steve Ekstrand wrote:We theorized that the CAI was the source of the sound of satan unleashed by the furious gay rage civie. So, we went with a short ram to keep the scream under the hood....

I talk to Dr. Jason and he tells me they had trouble with the short ram making too much noise....

Its hard to contain these 11 to 1 compression big cam 10K rpm monsters.... }:) }:) }:) }:) }:) }:) }:)
10K? That's right. You didn't go pneumatic valve train...
Rev. Dr. Curtis J. Luther, Esq., M.D.
User avatar
Steve Ekstrand
Solo Safety Steward
Posts: 7482
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: CASOC
Car#: 15
Location: This space left intentionally blank
Contact:

Re: New and would like some help with classing

Post by Steve Ekstrand »

Eric's goal was to attempt a plausibly legal motor.
Dr. Conemangler
aka The Malefic One
2015 Wildcat Honda F600
User avatar
Curt Luther
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:27 am
Club: PSCC
Car#: 9
Location: Lookin' in Mike's cooler for "water" ;)...and my underwear
Contact:

Re: New and would like some help with classing

Post by Curt Luther »

Steve Ekstrand wrote:Eric's goal was to attempt a plausibly legal motor.
Oh sure. Now he finds morals...
Rev. Dr. Curtis J. Luther, Esq., M.D.
User avatar
Tito Sar
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:42 pm
Club: PSCC
Car#: 562
Location: Long Beach

Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Tito Sar »

My friend has a daily driven 1991 MR2 and he is not stock. STS2 excludes his MR2 from what I'm reading; therefore, where does he belong?
User avatar
Kurt Rahn
Posts: 3923
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:29 am
Club: CASOC
Car#: 88
Location: Pasadena

Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Kurt Rahn »

Tito Sar wrote:My friend has a daily driven 1991 MR2 and he is not stock. STS2 excludes his MR2 from what I'm reading; therefore, where does he belong?
We'd have to know more about what mods he's done.
==============
Oversteer is better than understeer because you don't see the tree you're hitting.
User avatar
Tito Sar
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:42 pm
Club: PSCC
Car#: 562
Location: Long Beach

Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Tito Sar »

Kurt Rahn wrote:
Tito Sar wrote:My friend has a daily driven 1991 MR2 and he is not stock. STS2 excludes his MR2 from what I'm reading; therefore, where does he belong?
We'd have to know more about what mods he's done.
Hm, he is NA, stock engine; his suspension consists of aftermarket shocks and springs, and he is running on All-Season Hankook's. Let me know if I missed anything.
User avatar
Robert Puertas
Posts: 1093
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: PSCC
Car#: 44

Re: Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

Post by Robert Puertas »

Our new SST class is open to otherwise unclassified cars prepped to the ST rules.
Sounds like a god fit for the MR2.
Nathan Hall
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Car#: 0

Help classing a 1984 rabbit L

Post by Nathan Hall »

I ran in fsp at the El Toro event but i think im in the wrong class. The car has a 2.0 16v,koni adjs, neuspeed springs,no rear seat. Would i be able to run in historic ? If so what would be my pax? Thanks in advance Nate.
User avatar
Eric Clements
Solo Safety Steward
Posts: 895
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:25 am
Club: No$
Car#: 30
Location: Pasadena

Re: Help classing a 1984 rabbit L

Post by Eric Clements »

If memory serves, the 2.0 16v was never offered in the A1 chassis. With the late model engine and no rear seat your car prep is beyond Street Prepared.

SM, EP, or some local class is where your car can legally run.
User avatar
Doug Teulie
Posts: 531
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: PSCC
Car#: 99
Location: Orange County CA

Re: Help classing a 1984 rabbit L

Post by Doug Teulie »

Nathan Hall wrote:I ran in fsp at the El Toro event but i think im in the wrong class. The car has a 2.0 16v,koni adjs, neuspeed springs,no rear seat. Would i be able to run in historic ? If so what would be my pax? Thanks in advance Nate.
When building a solo car it is best to do your class rules homework first before you spend money on modifications.
You have built a Front wheel Drive Street Mod car. It would be best (IMO) for you to develop your car for the new SCCA FWD SM class.
The Front wheel Drive Street Mod class in relatively new and you will be one of the early participants. It is better to participate in a SCCA classes if you can. You can grow and even look forward to Tour, Divisionals and the Nationals. If all you want to do is drive your car near some cones do X runs. If you are going to race join a SCCA class if you can and put some real effort in it. You will find it more rewarding in the long run.
Doug T
PSCC CSCC #99 /SCNAX SD #151 LT Points 23,600.
TEAM DHE/FAST 1976 KARMANN 8V FSP MK1 SILVER SCIROCCO
TEAM DHE/FAST 1980 KARMANN 8V FSP MK1 RED SCIROCCO
Need VW parts?--->http://www.parts4vws.com Need Wax?--> Mother's
Aaron Goldsmith
Posts: 2663
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 4:22 pm
Club: CASOC
Car#: 32
Location: HB, CA

Re: Help classing a 1984 rabbit L

Post by Aaron Goldsmith »

Doug Teulie wrote:
Nathan Hall wrote:I ran in fsp at the El Toro event but i think im in the wrong class. The car has a 2.0 16v,koni adjs, neuspeed springs,no rear seat. Would i be able to run in historic ? If so what would be my pax? Thanks in advance Nate.
When building a solo car it is best to do your class rules homework first before you spend money on modifications.
You have built a Front wheel Drive Street Mod car. It would be best (IMO) for you to develop your car for the new SCCA FWD SM class.
The Front wheel Drive Street Mod class in relatively new and you will be one of the early participants. It is better to participate in a SCCA classes if you can. You can grow and even look forward to Tour, Divisionals and the Nationals. If all you want to do is drive your car near some cones do X runs. If you are going to race join a SCCA class if you can and put some real effort in it. You will find it more rewarding in the long run.
From the last Fastrack about the SMF class doug is talking about.

STREET MODIFIED
- The SMAC feels that the prior proposal for SMF did not receive enough support to be considered for a national class at this
time. The SMAC would like to propose the following for a possible SMF provisional class for 2009:
- SMF would encompass ALL FWD cars under the current SM weight formula: 1550 lbs + 125 lbs/liter
- All SM rules will apply, with the following exceptions: Cars running in SMF using tires with a nominal width of 275 or less will
NOT receive the weight break as stated in SM. FWD vehicles originally classed in SSM (formerly known as SM2) add 100 lbs
to min weights.
- This class would be a supplemental class that will run with SM at the Solo Nationals. SM-eligible cars will be eligible for and
counted within SM for contingency, trophies, etc.
User avatar
Doug Teulie
Posts: 531
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: PSCC
Car#: 99
Location: Orange County CA

Re: Help classing a 1984 rabbit L

Post by Doug Teulie »

Aaron Goldsmith wrote:
Doug Teulie wrote:
Nathan Hall wrote:I ran in fsp at the El Toro event but i think im in the wrong class. The car has a 2.0 16v,koni adjs, neuspeed springs,no rear seat. Would i be able to run in historic ? If so what would be my pax? Thanks in advance Nate.
When building a solo car it is best to do your class rules homework first before you spend money on modifications.
You have built a Front wheel Drive Street Mod car. It would be best (IMO) for you to develop your car for the new SCCA FWD SM class.
The Front wheel Drive Street Mod class in relatively new and you will be one of the early participants. It is better to participate in a SCCA classes if you can. You can grow and even look forward to Tour, Divisionals and the Nationals. If all you want to do is drive your car near some cones do X runs. If you are going to race join a SCCA class if you can and put some real effort in it. You will find it more rewarding in the long run.
From the last Fastrack about the SMF class doug is talking about.

STREET MODIFIED
- The SMAC feels that the prior proposal for SMF did not receive enough support to be considered for a national class at this
time. The SMAC would like to propose the following for a possible SMF provisional class for 2009:
- SMF would encompass ALL FWD cars under the current SM weight formula: 1550 lbs + 125 lbs/liter
- All SM rules will apply, with the following exceptions: Cars running in SMF using tires with a nominal width of 275 or less will
NOT receive the weight break as stated in SM. FWD vehicles originally classed in SSM (formerly known as SM2) add 100 lbs
to min weights.
- This class would be a supplemental class that will run with SM at the Solo Nationals. SM-eligible cars will be eligible for and
counted within SM for contingency, trophies, etc.
That is your class and it needs your support to live.
I know several VW drivers that are running SM and waiting for the Front Wheel Drive SM class to go national. You need to show your support for the class this year. So for this year you are in SM (STREET MODIFIED). Send in your support for the new class to: seb@scca.com.
Doug T
PSCC CSCC #99 /SCNAX SD #151 LT Points 23,600.
TEAM DHE/FAST 1976 KARMANN 8V FSP MK1 SILVER SCIROCCO
TEAM DHE/FAST 1980 KARMANN 8V FSP MK1 RED SCIROCCO
Need VW parts?--->http://www.parts4vws.com Need Wax?--> Mother's
Nathan Hall
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Car#: 0

Re: Help classing a 1984 rabbit L

Post by Nathan Hall »

Thank you for your input. I built the car to run NASA TTE. When i purchased the car it was missing lots of things that it needed to be a fsp car....bumpers,back seat.
User avatar
Doug Teulie
Posts: 531
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: PSCC
Car#: 99
Location: Orange County CA

Re: Help classing a 1984 rabbit L

Post by Doug Teulie »

Nathan Hall wrote:Thank you for your input. I built the car to run NASA TTE. When i purchased the car it was missing lots of things that it needed to be a fsp car....bumpers,back seat.
Your car was a FSP car that was missing a few items at the Divisional. Your car is no longer legal in any SCCA street prepared class because of your 2.0 16V motor. I think you need to add the bumpers to be in SM??? So it is possible that you may have an EP car now. If so then you need to run in Combined Preps and Mods with an EP pax.

When building a solo car it is best to do your class rules homework first before you spend money on modifications.
Doug T
PSCC CSCC #99 /SCNAX SD #151 LT Points 23,600.
TEAM DHE/FAST 1976 KARMANN 8V FSP MK1 SILVER SCIROCCO
TEAM DHE/FAST 1980 KARMANN 8V FSP MK1 RED SCIROCCO
Need VW parts?--->http://www.parts4vws.com Need Wax?--> Mother's
Aaron Goldsmith
Posts: 2663
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 4:22 pm
Club: CASOC
Car#: 32
Location: HB, CA

Re: Help classing a 1984 rabbit L

Post by Aaron Goldsmith »

Doug Teulie wrote:
Nathan Hall wrote:Thank you for your input. I built the car to run NASA TTE. When i purchased the car it was missing lots of things that it needed to be a fsp car....bumpers,back seat.
When building a solo car it is best to do your class rules homework first before you spend money on modifications.
True in general, but it sounds like he built the car to the NASA rules.. they just don't line up with SCCA rules favorably. I'd read the SM rules Nathan, that'd be the closest class it sounds like to me.
User avatar
Sebastian Rios
King of Fastrack!
Posts: 1656
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:27 am
Club: SCNAX
Car#: 397
Location: Out to lunch

Re: Help classing a 1984 rabbit L

Post by Sebastian Rios »

Doug Teulie wrote:I think you need to add the bumpers to be in SM???
Correct.
User avatar
Doug Teulie
Posts: 531
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: PSCC
Car#: 99
Location: Orange County CA

Re: Help classing a 1984 rabbit L

Post by Doug Teulie »

Sebastian Rios wrote:
Doug Teulie wrote:I think you need to add the bumpers to be in SM???
Correct.
Aaron Goldsmith wrote:
Doug Teulie wrote:[When building a solo car it is best to do your class rules homework first before you spend money on modifications.
True in general, but it sounds like he built the car to the NASA rules.. they just don't line up with SCCA rules favorably. I'd read the SM rules Nathan, that'd be the closest class it sounds like to me.
SM is my vote. Get some bumpers and take them off when you don't need them.
Doug T
PSCC CSCC #99 /SCNAX SD #151 LT Points 23,600.
TEAM DHE/FAST 1976 KARMANN 8V FSP MK1 SILVER SCIROCCO
TEAM DHE/FAST 1980 KARMANN 8V FSP MK1 RED SCIROCCO
Need VW parts?--->http://www.parts4vws.com Need Wax?--> Mother's
User avatar
Mike Simanyi
Former Club Chair
Posts: 2460
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 am
Club: No$
Car#: 6

Re: Help classing a 1984 rabbit L

Post by Mike Simanyi »

Or run in CSM or CST. Those are our "run what ya brung" classes. I can't imagine anyone protesting you for *any* configuration there if your car vaguely resembles something streetable.

Mike
User avatar
Kurt Rahn
Posts: 3923
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 11:29 am
Club: CASOC
Car#: 88
Location: Pasadena

Re: Help classing a 1984 rabbit L

Post by Kurt Rahn »

Mike Simanyi wrote:Or run in CSM or CST. Those are our "run what ya brung" classes. I can't imagine anyone protesting you for *any* configuration there if your car vaguely resembles something streetable.
Unless, of course, he wins ;)
==============
Oversteer is better than understeer because you don't see the tree you're hitting.
Post Reply