Cal Club Autocross Forums

Jayson Woodruff wrote:

Damon Tolentino wrote: yeah, i saw that from the event calendar. i do have an SCCA membership, so that's not a problem. just debating on whether or not i want 3 runs to make up for 3 years of not being behind the wheel.

Well zero runs sure isn't going to get you anywhere.

No time like the present (or Sunday at least).

Jay W

well, i don't know if anyone takes any stock from a driving sim. ;)

Driving Sims teach me to die on the street.

The week after Gran Turismo 5 Prologue came out I kept looking to floor it into traffic and pass on the sidewalks.

Damon Tolentino wrote:

Jayson Woodruff wrote:

Damon Tolentino wrote: yeah, i saw that from the event calendar. i do have an SCCA membership, so that's not a problem. just debating on whether or not i want 3 runs to make up for 3 years of not being behind the wheel.

Well zero runs sure isn't going to get you anywhere.

No time like the present (or Sunday at least).

Jay W

well, i don't know if anyone takes any stock from a driving sim. ;)

I don't. All visual, car controls that don't react anything like the real thing, under conditions that are, well, simulated.

well, okay. but i will say that it did help my driver polish her skills and finish 2nd in class last season. she also took two 1st's at the double regional this past weekend, running far better times than she did previously at california speedway.

all while practicing technique and driving lines on the sim. :shrug:

for what it's worth. ;)

Damon Tolentino wrote:all while practicing technique and driving lines on the sim. :shrug:

for what it's worth. ;)

Driving simulators are for tracks, not for autocrosses courses that are built by hand via laying down cones, thousands of times over. That's the beauty of auto-x. Imagine running a new "layout" at Cal Speedway every race.

i think you guys are missing the point. my point was that we use it to practice technique in various situations and NOT for the tracks. i'm sure i don't have to tell you that technique is applicable on ANY track, be it autocross or road course.

with that said, there is nothing that can replace actually being on the track/course/whatever.

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:

Damon Tolentino wrote: well, i don't know if anyone takes any stock from a driving sim. ;)

I don't. All visual, car controls that don't react anything like the real thing, under conditions that are, well, simulated.

I've got way more gran turismo hours then hours of racing anything else. The visual part is 90% of what you need to go fast. Being able to visually recognize oversteer and correct it before you can really feel it is a HUGE benefit. Granted the really fast people make balance corrections before you can even see or feel them. Driving lines are ALL visual. I'm not saying you're going to break the top 10 overall pax on your first run because you've been driving a video game. it helps take the edge off the learning curve though.

Marshall Grice wrote:

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:

Damon Tolentino wrote: well, i don't know if anyone takes any stock from a driving sim. ;)

I don't. All visual, car controls that don't react anything like the real thing, under conditions that are, well, simulated.

I've got way more gran turismo hours then hours of racing anything else. The visual part is 90% of what you need to go fast. Being able to visually recognize oversteer and correct it before you can really feel it is a HUGE benefit. Granted the really fast people make balance corrections before you can even see or feel them. Driving lines are ALL visual. I'm not saying you're going to break the top 10 overall pax on your first run because you've been driving a video game. it helps take the edge off the learning curve though.

Steering wheel setup? Pedals? OK, I can see the value in that scenario. But I've also heard 15-yr-olds claim they're ready for track days because they're such gamer hot shoes. Trying to steer a car with regular game controllers is like steering a shopping cart with one foot. I couldn't do it. I did however pound the snot out of my nephew in the boxing game he has and has played dozens of times.

The visual part is 90% of driving, period. But a relatively low-res, two-dimensional environment vs. a live one?

ok. i can see where this is going.

probably should never have mentioned it.

Damon Tolentino wrote:ok. i can see where this is going.

probably should never have mentioned it.

yeah, why you gotta give away my secrets? geez!

I learned a great deal with good simulators.

Especially the ones that have a "ghost" car of your previous best lap. It's absolutely the best way I've seen to demonstrate "slow in, fast out" when you go crazy late-braking diving into a corner, get ahead of your "ghost" then watch as he easily pulls away from you on the following straightaway. Same thing with early/late apexing. And you can do it over and over and over again, trying different approaches and techniuqes to see what works when. And computer cars are completely static, their tires don't lose grip or overheat, the track conditions never change through a day (heat, dirt, rubber, etc). It's all driver and technique with a lot of variable removed.

Marshall Grice wrote: I've got way more gran turismo hours then hours of racing anything else. The visual part is 90% of what you need to go fast. Being able to visually recognize oversteer and correct it before you can really feel it is a HUGE benefit. Granted the really fast people make balance corrections before you can even see or feel them. Driving lines are ALL visual. I'm not saying you're going to break the top 10 overall pax on your first run because you've been driving a video game. it helps take the edge off the learning curve though.

So many hours into gran tursmo (hundreds), each of us taking turns at the wheel trying to go a tenth or a hundredth faster. Oversteer control is definately the number one product, trains muscle memory.

Works both ways too, knowing where to give up some to be faster elsewhere from autoX works there too.

Plus GT5 Prolog, MAN did they get the "feel" close.

I believe GTR helped me to be smoother with my inputs

Notice how fast Greg Peng has gotten?

Check him out driving a F3000 at the GP course in Turkey. 2nd one show an external view with his Ghost car from I believe the previous lap ... after a few seconds:

http://blip.tv/file/913363
http://blip.tv/file/913483

thanks for chiming in guys. my whole point was that we use it as a tool, not as a substitute.

just wish it didn't show up as me starting this thread, since i didn't, but oh well.

Damon Tolentino wrote:thanks for chiming in guys. my whole point was that we use it as a tool, not as a substitute.

just wish it didn't show up as me starting this thread, since i didn't, but oh well.

I take it back! OK? I do appreciate that GOOD simulation is a useful tool. I'm just sayin' that reality has been teaching for a long, long time.

Aaron Goldsmith wrote:

Marshall Grice wrote: I've got way more gran turismo hours then hours of racing anything else. The visual part is 90% of what you need to go fast. Being able to visually recognize oversteer and correct it before you can really feel it is a HUGE benefit. Granted the really fast people make balance corrections before you can even see or feel them. Driving lines are ALL visual. I'm not saying you're going to break the top 10 overall pax on your first run because you've been driving a video game. it helps take the edge off the learning curve though.

So many hours into gran tursmo (hundreds), each of us taking turns at the wheel trying to go a tenth or a hundredth faster. Oversteer control is definately the number one product, trains muscle memory.

Works both ways too, knowing where to give up some to be faster elsewhere from autoX works there too.

Plus GT5 Prolog, MAN did they get the "feel" close.

Damn. I might have to buy a gamebox. I'd rather go karting.

Steve Ekstrand wrote:Driving Sims teach me to die on the street.

The week after Gran Turismo 5 Prologue came out I kept looking to floor it into traffic and pass on the sidewalks.

The opposite was true for me. After banging countless cars and hitting barriers ingame, I was so afraid of getting handed 8-20second driving penalties from God that I slowed down IRL (in real life)

i guess this means we got off topic? Solotalk moderators FTL. heh

Marshall Grice wrote:i guess this means we got off topic? Solotalk moderators FTL. heh

Maybe we just need a Prolog competition.. Car and Track who can go fastest. Nabisco Style.

A good simulation like Live For Speed for the PC contributed to my improvement in becoming faster on the track. Playing hours and hours of that game trying to get my lap times down has taught me a few important lessons such as using up the whole track and getting on the throttle right at the apex point.

I swear when I went karting after playing Live For Speed, my lap times dropped as I was more aware of getting on the throttle as early as I could even if that meant giving up some corner entry speed. I felt as if I was going slower, but my lap times showed otherwise. I also noticed from my Data Acquisition unit that my revs were higher at the end of the straight.

From the game, I learned that corner exit speed played more of a significant factor than corner entry speed. It's better to go in a little slower and have the perfect corner exit than enter in a little too fast and be late on the throttle. I knew about the basic principle of "slow in, fast out", but never focused on it too much until I started playing the game.