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Ferrari threatens to quit F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:03 am
by Bob Beamesderfer
Luca & Co. are unhappy.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090512/F1/905129992" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Ferrari threatens to quite F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:43 am
by Mako Koiwai
The relatively unlimited budget they have now isn't doing them much good if they can't get basic qualifying and race strategy down! I think Ferrari needs F1 as much as "we" would like to see them stay ... so F1 should do what's good for the whole instead of catering to Ferrari. Ferrari would come back if they sat out for a while in their huff.
Re: Ferrari threatens to quite F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:52 am
by Bob Beamesderfer
It's not just Ferrari:
Ferrari is not the only team known to be willing to quit F1 if the two-tier system comes to fruition. Toyota boss John Howett told AutoSport at the Spanish Grand Prix last weekend that Toyota was not willing to race under such a scenario, and Red Bull owner Dieter Mateschitz said that he would pull both of his teams--Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso--from F1, too, while BMW and Renault are also believed to hold the same attitude.
Almost certainly, McLaren-Mercedes holds the same view, though its recent troubles with the FIA over the 2007 industrial-espionage scandal against Ferrari, and this year's lying affair at the Australian Grand Prix, are likely keeping the team silent on the matter--for now.
Re: Ferrari threatens to quite F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:10 am
by Mako Koiwai
What do you suggest?
Re: Ferrari threatens to quite F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:27 am
by Jeff Shyu
F1 is the top tier of the sport.
you've gotta pay, to play.
if you really want to set a cap, don't set it as a 2 tier system. You might as well have 2 series if you do that.
Re: Ferrari threatens to quite F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:31 am
by Mako Koiwai
agreed ... all of that money hasn't made Toyota a winner ... and Ferrari isn't doing much better.
Re: Ferrari threatens to quite F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:35 am
by Jeff Shyu
the idea of a "cap" really doesn't go with the prestige of being the pinnacle of the sport though.
this is suppose to be the dream-like "if money wasn't a concern, how fast can you make these cars". you put a cap on it, suddenly it's basically an indy series.. at least to me.
Re: Ferrari threatens to quite F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:52 am
by Bob Beamesderfer
Jeff Shyu wrote:the idea of a "cap" really doesn't go with the prestige of being the pinnacle of the sport though.
this is suppose to be the dream-like "if money wasn't a concern, how fast can you make these cars". you put a cap on it, suddenly it's basically an indy series.. at least to me.
Agreed. Any kind of cap or homologated engine turns it into another nearly spec series. Whoopee.
Re: Ferrari threatens to quite F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:06 am
by Chuck Fowler
it will probably work as well as slowing the cars down this year did
they've already started to suggest "exclusions" to the cap.
minor things like drivers pay and engines
Re: Ferrari threatens to quite F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:41 pm
by Kristoffer Gjevre
I found this interesting...
...
Moreover, the former Ferrari and McLaren driver [Lauda] claims that the 'two-tier' element of the rules, where teams are still free to spend vast sums but with less technical freedoms than their capped rivals, is simply a clever ploy by Mosley.
"Three years ago Ferrari signed an agreement with the FIA and Bernie, and Mosley is using this (two-tier) situation to be in the clear legally," he said, suggesting that Ferrari was promised basic rules stability.
http://www.f1complete.com/content/view/12700/900/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Ferrari threatens to quite F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:42 pm
by Will Kalman
Jeff Shyu wrote:the idea of a "cap" really doesn't go with the prestige of being the pinnacle of the sport though.
this is suppose to be the dream-like "if money wasn't a concern, how fast can you make these cars". you put a cap on it, suddenly it's basically an indy series.. at least to me.
I've never bought into that notion for F1. Otherwise, you'd have no tire, dimension, configuration, displacement, boost, aero, or technological driver assistance limits. And the drivers wouldn't be able to survive the experience of driving one.
Re: Ferrari threatens to quite F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:44 pm
by Will Kalman
Bob Beamesderfer wrote:Agreed. Any kind of cap or homologated engine turns it into another nearly spec series. Whoopee.
I say Whoopee! Then it's a driver's race, not a budget, rules management, or political race.
Re: Ferrari threatens to quite F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:46 pm
by Will Kalman
Chuck Fowler wrote:it will probably work as well as slowing the cars down this year did
The goal was to encourage overtaking, not necessarily slow the cars down. They reduced the effect of aero while increasing the mechanical grip by going to slicks. I only wish they'd get rid of the wings altogether.
Re: Ferrari threatens to quite F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:49 pm
by Bob Beamesderfer
Will Kalman wrote:Bob Beamesderfer wrote:Agreed. Any kind of cap or homologated engine turns it into another nearly spec series. Whoopee.
I say Whoopee! Then it's a driver's race, not a budget, rules management, or political race.
F1 was always the pinnacle of technology, not a spec series.
Re: Ferrari threatens to quite F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:52 pm
by Giovanni Jaramillo
Bob Beamesderfer wrote:Will Kalman wrote:Bob Beamesderfer wrote:Agreed. Any kind of cap or homologated engine turns it into another nearly spec series. Whoopee.
I say Whoopee! Then it's a driver's race, not a budget, rules management, or political race.
F1 was always the pinnacle of technology, not a spec series.
That's why there's a "CONSTRUCTOR'S" championship. Which team can "build" the best car, and which driver of a team can drive it the fastest.
Re: Ferrari threatens to quite F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:54 pm
by Kristoffer Gjevre
Will Kalman wrote:
...
I only wish they'd get rid of the wings altogether.
http://www.f1complete.com/content/view/12661/900/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Raikkonen: Couldn't see the starting lights
After a dramatic end to his GP in Spain, Raikkonen commented on the start and revealed an all new problem to the new rear wings.
Talking to BBC television after his race was over with a throttle problem, Raikkonen commented on the start: "I didn't see the starting lights, because the rear wing [of the car infront] is so high".
The 2009 aero changes seem to have an all new problem, according to this quote by Raikkonen.
Re: Ferrari threatens to quit F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:55 pm
by Bob Beamesderfer
The Constructor's title is also why there are no "customer" cars in the series.
Re: Ferrari threatens to quit F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:58 pm
by Bob Beamesderfer
More in-depth analysis:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21465.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Ferrari threatens to quite F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 1:47 pm
by Will Kalman
Bob Beamesderfer wrote:Will Kalman wrote:Bob Beamesderfer wrote:Agreed. Any kind of cap or homologated engine turns it into another nearly spec series. Whoopee.
I say Whoopee! Then it's a driver's race, not a budget, rules management, or political race.
F1 was always the pinnacle of technology, not a spec series.
So make it a spec series with very high technology.
They'd go faster with ABS, traction control, active aero, more boost, more exotic materials, etc so they're already operating at an artificial pinnacle so does it really matter to what degree the limit is placed?
I had more fun watching SSB at the 2008 Runoffs than most of the F1 races I've seen. Same with World Challenge, especially when they were on street tires and you could *see* the driving because of the slip angles and drivers exceeding the limits. Much more engaging than pinnacle-of-technology-on-parade ;)
Re: Ferrari threatens to quit F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 1:52 pm
by Steve Ekstrand
Technology sucks....
The old film footage of vintage F1 is way cooler.
No abs
No traction control
No aero
BFG Euro T/A 305-50-15 spec tire
Minimum 1500lbs
Go for it.
Re: Ferrari threatens to quit F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 1:52 pm
by Jeff Shyu
if there's one thing that i do not want to see, is F1 become a driver's (only) race.
there's plenty of other series i can watch for that.
F1 is about huge budget, one-off items, different cars, different drivers.. all performing withing 1/10th of each other.
I can watch a spec miata race and see guys running within 1/10th of each other, but it doesn't have the wildcard factor in it, where everyones' platform is dfferent, yet performing at a similar max level.
that's just me though.
Re: Ferrari threatens to quit F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 2:06 pm
by Will Kalman
Jeff Shyu wrote:if there's one thing that i do not want to see, is F1 become a driver's (only) race.
there's plenty of other series i can watch for that.
F1 is about huge budget, one-off items, different cars, different drivers.. all performing withing 1/10th of each other.
Unless the budgets bankrupt most ofthe teams or one team becomes so dominant the others cannot touch it. Then it's no longer racing.
Jeff Shyu wrote:that's just me though.
Oh, OK. I thought others shared your opinion. Good to know. ;)
Re: Ferrari threatens to quit F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 2:53 pm
by Kristoffer Gjevre
These days, F1 is a soap opera for guys!
Re: Ferrari threatens to quit F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 3:02 pm
by Kristoffer Gjevre
Two-tier championships never worked in any series - Symonds
...
What do you think about the possibility of two-tier F1 with the introduction of a budget cap for certain teams in 2010?
"I don’t think two-tier championships have ever worked in any series, whether its saloon cars and sports cars, where they are trying to equalise diesels and spark ignition engines, whether it’s Formula 1 with turbos and normally aspirated engines. ...
http://www.f1technical.net/news/12379?s ... ee308a1ce7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Ferrari threatens to quit F1 over budget cap
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 3:13 pm
by Kristoffer Gjevre
Interesting article, but I think the first paragraph is a misrepresentation about why Ferrari opposes the new regulations, as seen in the statement from Ferrari it is the two tier regulations that is the main issue.
The dispute over the Formula 1 budget cap has turned into a full blown crisis, with Ferrari announcing today that it will not enter the Formula 1 World Championship in 2010 unless the budget cap is revoked. This is a rather short-sighted view as without a budget cap there are likely to be several teams going out of business. It remains to be seen whether the other members of the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) will stand with Ferrari. If they do, then the FIA and the Formula One group have a real problem, as they will have to try to organise a World Championship without suitable entries
http://www.f1complete.com/content/view/12703/900/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
the 2010 season will see the introduction of two different sets of regulations based on arbitrary technical rules and economic parameters
...
The same rules for all teams, stability of regulations, the continuity of the FOTA’s endeavours to methodically and progressively reduce costs, and governance of Formula 1 are the priorities for the future
...
