Cal Club Autocross Forums

Summit racing has QA1 springs at half the cost of Eibachs. More expensive doesn't always mean more quality and vice-versa. Anyone use these springs and if so did you check actual spring rates before installing?

Thanks for responding.
Tom

Some of the low cost items coming out of China use really cheap steel. I remember Chad's first coilovers settling something like almost an inch in the first week! And bolts rounding off on the first day, etc ....

Tom Berube wrote:Summit racing has QA1 springs at half the cost of Eibachs. More expensive doesn't always mean more quality and vice-versa. Anyone use these springs and if so did you check actual spring rates before installing?

Thanks for responding.
Tom

You get what you pay for and unless you're starting a low-budget NASCAR team you won't need more than one set. :ibrightdea:

Thanks for the reply and true, most times you get what you pay for. Unfortunately, as companies try to stay competitive, they end up using the same factories in China, using the same materials. Guess I'll have to research Eibach's quality control a little more. Too bad no one in the club has a spring tester to measure spring rates (new and as you mentioned, settling "X" inches) and has done some independent testing.

Springs aren't that expensive are they? Maybe not worth experimenting. Maybe the experiment would be too expensive. Just stick with the better ones. German Steel!

The japanese product engineer for Tein USA told me that even in Japan, the rabid, spare no expenses Gymkhana racers ($100K cars!) prefer the regular Tein Springs to the Tein racing springs ... so you're right ... sometimes more is not better?

For what type of car? Some of us have lots of springs that we don't need anymore. I was selling (barely) used Tein 75 mm springs for I believe $25 a set. Also check on your cars enthusiast message boards.

Typical spring steels are Chrome Silicon and Chrome Vanadium. Their chemical compositions are:

CHROME SILICON
0.51-0.59 C
0.60-0.80 Mn
0.035 P
0.040 S
1.20-1.60 Si
0.60-0.80 Cr

CHROME VANADIUM
0.48-0.53 C
0.70-0.90 Mn
0.040 P
0.040 S
0.15-0.35 Si
0.80-1.10 Cr
0.15 V

Most quality steel springs are made with either of these two materials and the most expensive steel springs are made with Chrome Vanadium. It has the highest fatigue resistance and strongest memory of any steel spring wire. Chrome Vanadium is also at least twice as expensive and Chrome Silicon.

Cheaper springs are made with HDMB and OTMB steels and the cheapest springs use 4130, 1095, 1070, and 1050. Junk springs use heat treated 1040, 1030, and 1020.

Tom Berube wrote:Thanks for the reply and true, most times you get what you pay for. Unfortunately, as companies try to stay competitive, they end up using the same factories in China, using the same materials. Guess I'll have to research Eibach's quality control a little more. Too bad no one in the club has a spring tester to measure spring rates (new and as you mentioned, settling "X" inches) and has done some independent testing.

Eibachs are made in China?

Unclear as to where there steel comes from:

http://eibach.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.exe/00 ... 4700009976

The general consensus of people that race for a living is that Hypercoil makes the best springs.

Robert Puertas wrote:The general consensus of people that race for a living is that Hypercoil makes the best springs.

Interesting, that's totally counter to my experience. I ordered a set and they rubbed on the threads of my strut body. I called Hypercoils and they said that they had a spec of X inches of vertical devation for each Y inch of spring free-length. They offered to go to their warehouse and hand pick me a set of the straightest springs they could find. Those rubbed, too.

I called Eibach and asked them what their square-ness spec was. "Straight" was the answer. So, I asked, "Sure, straight. But really, what's the actual tolerance?" "Straight" was the answer again. OoooK..... So I ordered a set from a local dealer (no hand-picked specials here) and sure enough, they were dead straight and I had no rubbing issues with them.

Mako Koiwai wrote:Unclear as to where there steel comes from:

http://eibach.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.exe/00 ... 4700009976

I doubt Eibach would take their mult-million Euro machines and run crappy steel through them. Hypercoil and Swift are both top brands.

Will Kalman wrote:

Robert Puertas wrote:The general consensus of people that race for a living is that Hypercoil makes the best springs.

Interesting, that's totally counter to my experience. I ordered a set and they rubbed on the threads of my strut body. I called Hypercoils and they said that they had a spec of X inches of vertical devation for each Y inch of spring free-length. They offered to go to their warehouse and hand pick me a set of the straightest springs they could find. Those rubbed, too.

I called Eibach and asked them what their square-ness spec was. "Straight" was the answer. So, I asked, "Sure, straight. But really, what's the actual tolerance?" "Straight" was the answer again. OoooK..... So I ordered a set from a local dealer (no hand-picked specials here) and sure enough, they were dead straight and I had no rubbing issues with them.

Hypercoils ARE supposed to be very good. I've certainly never had any trouble with them, used'm on multiple vehicles. Randy is right, they do have a very good rep in the big racing community.

Not saying you didn't have trubs. Also never had any trouble with eibachs either, got'm on the supra. Probably 3 or 4 sets in the garage.

So the answer to my question (although all the other discussions were interesting and valuable) is no one has experience with QA1 springs. Well, I don't want to be the guinea pig so I'll stick with the Eibachs for now.

Thanks for the feedback.

FYI... this is the company that actually makes the springs for Hyperco: http://www.mw-ind.com/MatthewWarren/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Hyperco and Hypercoils are a division and a brand name for Matthew Warren Industries. Eibach won some US OEM manufacturing contracts a few years ago and has spring winding facilities here in the US. A lot of their supposed European made springs are actually wound here: http://www.eibach.de/oem/en/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A lot more goes into springs then just material. If the spring is pressed to the correct free height too quickly the spring will bow. If the ends are ground at the same times its hard to ensure square. So, even springs made out of the best materials can have structural problems from the manufacturing process.

I'd did use a set of QA1's briefly on the Neon. Maybe not the most glowing endorsement (yeah it was the springs that made that car suck....).

Eibach's were backed ordered in the part number I wanted, so I went with the QA1's after checking with my roundy round friends.

QA1's are made in the USA. Same company makes pretty decent rod ends and also owns Carrera shocks. The are popular in four link drag racing apps and you see them used on American muscle cars.

They rolled true and were square. Seemed fine compared to my Eibach, Hypercoil, and KW springs.

I use QA-1s and Eibachs. No problems with either. Don't know how accurate their ratings, but none have ever settled as far as I know. QA-1 advantage is price...Eibach advantage is selection. They offer far more combinations of rate and length. You should use bumpstops to prevent solid stacking of any spring unless specifically designed for it. Like tender springs.

Bigger factor in spring selection is single stage vs two-stage springs. High rate springs don't compress much, so can't extend much before unloading. Hence tender or dual springs to take up the slack. (Note, I'm not talking about progressive springs here...two separate springs at each corner)

-- Bill