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Full face helmet + air bag?

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:56 am
by Q V
This was brought up on another forum recently & I don't ever recall it being brought up here or @ drivers' meeting, so thought I'd post:

I know it's not really an issue in autox, but do we currently recommend ppl w/ active airbag systems wear open face helmets?

An old notice sent out years ago: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78914
"DATE: November 16, 2004
FROM: National Staff
TO: All Participants
SUBJECT: Airbag Advisory

It has been brought to the attention of SCCA Technical Services that the use
of full-face or closed-face helmets while driving vehicles with active airbag
restraint systems may result in injuries in the event of a crash that deploys
the airbag. Because of the location of the steering wheel relative to a
driver’s position, the airbag axis is on a level with the driver’s chin. In a
crash with airbag deployment, contact with the chin area of a full-face
helmet can be so powerful “that the risk of fractures to the jaw cannot be
ruled out“ (Hubert Gramling, FIA Institute, FT3/AF, 18.5.1999). This applies
to vehicle that may be used in Solo, RallyCross, High Performance Car
Control Clinics, etc.

Therefore, it is highly recommended that full-face helmets not be used in
vehicles with functional airbag systems. Potentially more restrictive language
is currently being considered for 2005, which could appear in an early 2005
issue of FasTrack. If you have any questions, please contact the SCCA at
(800) 770-2055."

Re: Full face helmet + air bag?

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:44 pm
by Steve Ekstrand
The day the SCCA panicked.... And now we have to live with the regurgitation a couple of times a year.

Ignore.

Re: Full face helmet + air bag?

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:27 pm
by Doug Teulie
Arrrrrrrggggh

Ian and I went looking for some open face helmets and found that most manufactures are no longer making open face helmets.

This is the real killer, SNELL 2010s don't come out till October of 2010. So all of us with 95s have to get 2005s if we want to race in January.

SCCA can you wait till the 2010s are out? Ya I know helmets disintegrate every 5 years.....

Click this link to see the SNELL 2015 full face helmet as demonstrated by one our local Auto-xers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leAn9wyI ... r_embedded" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Image

Re: Full face helmet + air bag?

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:52 pm
by Aaron Goldsmith
Doug Teulie wrote:Arrrrrrrggggh

Ian and I went looking for some open face helmets and found that most manufactures are no longer making open face helmets.
My SA2005 open face Arai is great.

Only reason I run an open face is so I can drink water easily and so it's cooler in the summer. Makes pics much less cool though when you can see the stupid faces i'm making while driving. :lol:

Re: Full face helmet + air bag?

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:55 pm
by Glenn Duensing
Doug, 95's will still be good next year.

4.3.1 Helmets
Helmets meeting the following standards must be worn while on
course: All helmets meeting the current or two immediately preceding
Snell Foundation standards (SA, K, or M), or SFI standards
31.1A, 31.2A, 41.1A, or 41.2A are acceptable.
Helmets meeting
British spec BS6658-85 type A/FR are also acceptable.
For maximum protection, helmets must fit securely and should
provide adequate peripheral vision. The chin strap must be
securely fastened. Loaner helmets should be available to vehicle
occupants not having their own.

Re: Full face helmet + air bag?

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:19 pm
by Bob Beamesderfer
Quoc-Viet Dang wrote:This was brought up on another forum recently & I don't ever recall it being brought up here or @ drivers' meeting, so thought I'd post:

I know it's not really an issue in autox, but do we currently recommend ppl w/ active airbag systems wear open face helmets?

An old notice sent out years ago: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78914
"DATE: November 16, 2004
FROM: National Staff
TO: All Participants
SUBJECT: Airbag Advisory

It has been brought to the attention of SCCA Technical Services that the use
of full-face or closed-face helmets while driving vehicles with active airbag
restraint systems may result in injuries in the event of a crash that deploys
the airbag. Because of the location of the steering wheel relative to a
driver’s position, the airbag axis is on a level with the driver’s chin. In a
crash with airbag deployment, contact with the chin area of a full-face
helmet can be so powerful “that the risk of fractures to the jaw cannot be
ruled out“ (Hubert Gramling, FIA Institute, FT3/AF, 18.5.1999). This applies
to vehicle that may be used in Solo, RallyCross, High Performance Car
Control Clinics, etc.

Therefore, it is highly recommended that full-face helmets not be used in
vehicles with functional airbag systems. Potentially more restrictive language
is currently being considered for 2005, which could appear in an early 2005
issue of FasTrack. If you have any questions, please contact the SCCA at
(800) 770-2055."

Like Steve said. Nothing of value to that advisory. [SCCA saw an FIA white paper and misinterpreted the data, which had nothing to do with full-face helmets in production cars. It was testing done subsequent to Ayrton Senna's death in F1 to determine if airbags were suitable in open-wheel racing.]

Re: Full face helmet + air bag?

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:08 pm
by Will Kalman
Glenn Duensing wrote:the current or two immediately preceding Snell Foundation standards
Wouldn't that mean 2010, 2005, and 2000 - making 1995's ineligible?

Also, isn't there also a rule that says that you can use your out-of-date helmet until the current standard becomes available, not just calendar year? So those of us using 1995's can use them until the 2010's are available.

Re: Full face helmet + air bag?

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:43 pm
by Glenn Duensing
Will Kalman wrote:
Glenn Duensing wrote:the current or two immediately preceding Snell Foundation standards
Wouldn't that mean 2010, 2005, and 2000 - making 1995's ineligible?

Also, isn't there also a rule that says that you can use your out-of-date helmet until the current standard becomes available, not just calendar year? So those of us using 1995's can use them until the 2010's are available.
Since the 2010 doesn't come out until Oct 2010, the '95 will be good until 2011. Same as it was in '05.

Re: Full face helmet + air bag?

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:16 pm
by Doug Teulie
Glenn Duensing wrote:
Will Kalman wrote:
Glenn Duensing wrote:the current or two immediately preceding Snell Foundation standards
Wouldn't that mean 2010, 2005, and 2000 - making 1995's ineligible?

Also, isn't there also a rule that says that you can use your out-of-date helmet until the current standard becomes available, not just calendar year? So those of us using 1995's can use them until the 2010's are available.
Since the 2010 doesn't come out until Oct 2010, the '95 will be good until 2011. Same as it was in '05.

Yea!

Re: Full face helmet + air bag?

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:09 pm
by Glenn Duensing
Update: SA95 will be okay but not M95 as the M10's will be available In Jan 2010

Edit M10 are available now.