Cal Club Autocross Forums

I'm interested in putting a 4pt roll bar in my e30 BMW after witnessing a pretty bad crash last weekend, but i'm a little confused on the rules. I've gone through the rule book a few times but the roll bar/cage rules are really vague. All it basically says is that roll bars and full cages are legal in all classes but how would you do this without removing any of the interior?
I really want to stay in STX but I also want to make my car safer for track days. In order to put in a 4pt bar all I would have to remove would be the rear seat. The seat has no support in it, it's just a cushion so it only weighs like 10lbs, way less than the bar that would go in. I can't imagine this fits under comfort and convenience, am I just SOL? I might be able to cut holes in the cushion but I'd really really like to avoid this.

Matthew Thiemann wrote:I'm interested in putting a 4pt roll bar in my e30 BMW after witnessing a pretty bad crash last weekend, but i'm a little confused on the rules. I've gone through the rule book a few times but the roll bar/cage rules are really vague. All it basically says is that roll bars and full cages are legal in all classes but how would you do this without removing any of the interior?
I really want to stay in STX but I also want to make my car safer for track days. In order to put in a 4pt bar all I would have to remove would be the rear seat. The seat has no support in it, it's just a cushion so it only weighs like 10lbs, way less than the bar that would go in. I can't imagine this fits under comfort and convenience, am I just SOL? I might be able to cut holes in the cushion but I'd really really like to avoid this.

You should be able to do a full cage with only a little trim work, we have full interior with a full cage in the SSC Nissan. If there is not a ready made kit that fits your car, you should go by Beta Motorsports and have John make one.

Not our car, but this is how it looks: http://www.kirkracing.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yo Matt, I'm interested in doing a cage too since I do track events a lot, but last time that I researched I though it can't be done in STX. I hope I'm wrong, I've actually started looking for an E30 to run spec and just leave the E36 for solo.

Also, I went to the National tour in SD and Pro Solo at ET and I don't remember seeing any STX car with cage, maybe it's just extra weight for SOLO but then the extra stiffness could help.

Not sure what happened last weekend but I've never really seen a crash happen to anyone that drives reasonably, its usually some over prepped or underprepped car in the hands of someone that doesn't understand drive/car limitation, like me when I flew off at the end of the banked turn into a ditch Of course wheel to wheel is a lot different and more dangerous.

If its a street car, don't cram passengers in the back. And pad the heck out of the bars a driver or front passenger could encounter.

What saves you on a track day, will KILL you in a street accident with no helmet.

BTW-My 69 1/2 Road Runner has a 4 pt bar that goes above the rear seat and doesn't affect the upholstery, just two notches out of the package tray.

I Don't recommend you drive a Caged car on the street, Crumple zones, your head bouncing around on hard steel bars, roll bars bending at strange angles and entering you body, so on and etc, When I was working for a Carlab we discouraged car owners from doing this on street vehicles. One customer took His Race prepped car on the street crashed it and was hurt by the cage.

There are bolt in cages that can be taken in and out , like the one Jason posted.

Ditto. I build roll cages and bars (thanks for the referral Jason) and I won't build or install a roll cage in car that's driven on the street. Its just too risky IMHO. I will build and install a roll bar on a street driven car but you will lose rear seat accommodations.

For a roll bar for your E30 Kirk Racing makes a nice bolt-in bar and I sell their products. I can also make a custom weld-in bar if you want to go that route.

John Coffey wrote:Ditto. I build roll cages and bars (thanks for the referral Jason) and I won't build or install a roll cage in car that's driven on the street. Its just too risky IMHO. I will build and install a roll bar on a street driven car but you will lose rear seat accommodations.

For a roll bar for your E30 Kirk Racing makes a nice bolt-in bar and I sell their products. I can also make a custom weld-in bar if you want to go that route.

Just out of curiosity, how is it that these "roll hoops" like BMW Z3 are not a danger to your uncovered noggin in a crash? I am sure there are more examples of these hoops. Something to do with cage vs bar vs hoop & how they deform on impact?

Its not the main hoop of the roll cage or bar that's my concern - the seat back pretty much limits any head contact with that. Its the upper door hoop that is part of a roll cage that post a threat to you're noggin' The cage tubing is at least 2" closer to your head then the top of the door frame and people often smack their heads on the door frame in a side impact.

John Coffey wrote:Its not the main hoop of the roll cage or bar that's my concern - the seat back pretty much limits any head contact with that. Its the upper door hoop that is part of a roll cage that post a threat to you're noggin' The cage tubing is at least 2" closer to your head then the top of the door frame and people often smack their heads on the door frame in a side impact.

Like John said, a full cage on the street is a recipe for disaster. While I do not have first hand knowledge, the word is that a T1 Corvette driver that was practicing for the Runoffs received minor brain damage (word is he will make a full recovery) when his helmet split on impact with his cage during a wreck. Remove the helmet and have a similar impact on the street. Game Over. :unimpressed: Would you let someone hit you in the head with a baseball bat wrapped with a fun-noodle?

Do a bolt-in 4-point bar. If your primary focus is track days leave it in the car all the time. If you are only going to run a few a year take it out. Once you have the car setup for the bar, it is not a lot of work to pull it out and have a usable back seat.

Thanks for all the responses
A noodle wrapped bat does not sound enjoyable. I am probably gonna go with a 4pt bolt in bar. I don't have a tow vehicle or a place to store a trailer right now so the full cage is out. If I reach that point, I can always just pull the 4pt out and sell it. The backseat only gets used for tires because it is not a daily driver so I'm not worried about passengers. I would like to do a weld in rear bar but I wouldn't do it without removing the headliner and sunroof cassette because I would be wasting 2" of headroom with something that is so permanent. My rear seat cushion goes all the way to the doors so, unlike the picture, I think I'll either have to remove it or cut into it. I really don't want to have to remove it every time because I''m also gonna get some 5 pt harnesses and I would have to remove those too without the harness bar support.
John: I'll send you a PM about the kirk bar
Theo: The crash last weekend was pretty bad, I couldn't even recognize the car when I drove by it. I think he tried to save it as he was going off instead of just giving in and going straight off. I went off three times last weekend because I got greedy on my braking points but I recognized it early and just went straight off, no damage done. I know I can thank my autocross experience for that. To bad you couldn't make it last weekend, all the norcal specE30 guys were there. I send you a PM about the series and e30's in general

Matthew Thiemann wrote:My rear seat cushion goes all the way to the doors so, unlike the picture, I think I'll either have to remove it or cut into it. I really don't want to have to remove it every time because I''m also gonna get some 5 pt harnesses and I would have to remove those too without the harness bar support.
John: I'll send you a PM about the kirk bar

No imagination...

thanks, i'm not sure whether or not the rear bars of the kirk or autopower bars go that far out towards the doors, I guess I'll find out

Matthew Thiemann wrote: thanks, i'm not sure whether or not the rear bars of the kirk or autopower bars go that far out towards the doors, I guess I'll find out

If they don't, John can make them. ;)

The Kirk Racing bolt-in cage. The roll bar is just the back half.