Cal Club Autocross Forums

As some of you may recall, I was pulled over last summer by a rather aggressive, nasty motorcycle cop here in Santa Monica for "failure to yield to a pedestrian in a crosswalk" In addition to the BOGUS charge, the cop was profiling me as a "street racer" and demanded that I "open my hood" so he could search for violations.

"I'm a trained street racer investigator" he blustered....

When I politely refused, he started yelling at me, and threatening to impound my car. (they must have taught him that tactic at Street Racer Investigation University)

"Do what you have to do, but I'm not giving you permission to search my car - I'm a very private person" I told him, as I followed ACLU protocol, and rolled up my windows to make it clear he did not have permission to go fishing in MY pond.

=)

Well, after some good-cop / bad-cop with him and his Sergent, I was released (the impound threat was empty) with a crosswalk ticket, and a BAR citation for an "illegal muffler" -

Oh, and a $637 fine!!!! :barf:

So.... I fought it with a "trial by declaration".....

Using Google Earth, I made a diagram of the ticket scene, showing how the cop couldn't have seen the pedestrian from his vantage point, and a written explanation of my side of the story - that I did indeed yield the right of way. I also included a photo of my rusty old OEM muffler under the car in my evidence package... Then I submitted the package to the Court Clerk, along with a check for $637

Here is the result:

http://tinyurl.com/yfxkh2r" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lol....no BAR visit, and now the Clerk of the court has to cough up my $637!

Ahahahaha! Just in time for Christmas. ;)

Maybe there is a god after all.... "Oh Christmas tree, oh, Christmas tree...."

=)

My advice?

ALWAYS FIGHT ANY CITATION AND NEVER AGREE TO LET COPS SEARCH YOUR CAR.

Thanks to Bob Beamesderfer for directing me to Ticket Assassin last summer. Though I didn't use that service, it enabled me to figure out the process!



PS - I stumbled across an interesting quirk in California Tax law while researching boating laws and state jurisdiction the other day that might interest all of you:

http://www.sco.ca.gov/ardtax_gas_tax.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It doent help me much - I have a sail boat, and can only claim the refund for fuel used out past the 3 mile limit at sea.

However, it looks like you all probably qualify for an .$18 per gallon refund for fuel used on the race course, since it's on private property, and is thus off highway use, and not on public lands subject to vehicle registration. I guess the tax is specifically to fund highway improvements and maintenance, and the refund loophole was probably created by the Agriculture lobby when the tax was imposed.... Cal-Club should ask participants to voluntarily sign over their refunds at registration, and use the money to fund goodies for the benefit of everyone! You guys could make the administration of it a work assignment at each event, and have the treasurer do the accounting. It's not really worth it for an individual to file for it - even if you used 20 gallons of fuel over a weekend, you'd only get back $3.60

However, multiply THAT by 150 or so, and let's see....

That's $540 per month, x 12......and....carry the 3....and....

$6480 per year from the State of California to fund local Autocross racing each year!

Lol.... It is unwise to get on Bill Hogan's bad side, greedy, extortionist bureaucrats.... :king:

I don't understand Bill. Paying taxes is a privilege. You should pay extra to help those less fortunate or simply lazy. Its the liberal way.

Taxes are great for other people!

That gas tax refund is legitimate for racers - and you can go back and claim it for 3 years too.... That would be like $15,000 for Cal Club, plus what you can collect next year! But hey, If you guys want to leave it on the table so that the State can give it to Cadillac driving welfare moms, well, then....

BH :king:

The law appears to NOT APPLY to cars subject to registration, so only the trailer cars are going to qualify, if I read it correctly.

The wording is a bit vague - for instance, my boat is subject to California vehicle (DMV) registration, but fuel consumed on it outside of California's territorial waters qualifies for the refund.

The Faq states:

"Off–highway, recreational use in vehicles subject to registration or identification under Divisions 3 and/or 16.5 of the California Vehicle Code (emphasis mine)is not a qualifying use for refund purposes. This rule also applies to vehicles rented or leased for off–highway, recreational purposes."

Here is "Divisions 3 and/or 16.5" of the California Vehicle Code:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd16_5c2a3.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Chapter 2. Registration of Off-Highway Vehicles; Original and Renewal of identification; Issuance of Certificates Issuance of Ownership
Article 3. Evidences of Identification"

It specifically lists "Off highway vehicles" not vehicles registered for highway use, then used off highway on private property. You are not required to register a race car for "off highway use" so I'd argue vehicles consuming fuel on private property qualify - just like farm vehicles and boats beyond the jurisdiction of the California Vehicle code. Off highway use on public lands is still subject to regulation and the tax from what I can tell.

Here's how it works. Remember - this loophole was created by the agriculture lobby:

Farmer John keeps his pick-up truck registered with the DMV for highway use so he can legally drive it into Fresno to sell his produce, get drunk at a cowboy bar, and pick-up toothless hookers. This use does not qualify for the rebate. However, he also logs fuel use on his 10,000 acre farm. His tasks include monitoring those lazy, overpaid immigrant farm workers who slack off while picking grapes, irrigating his crops with government subsidized water, voting republican, dumping fertilizer, praising god, spraying pesticides, and shooting crows, coyotes and hippies with his shotgun. When he's done, he files a gas tax refund claim. When the check arrives, he heads back to town to purchase more beer and hookers, thus completing the economic cycle.

Ahhhh.... How romantic, profound, and beautiful: The simple yo-man farmer in harmony with nature.

When I broke my collar bone on my motorcycle last year, the CHP motorcycle cop who responded to the 911 call was absolutely LIVID that he couldn't impound my bike. (It happened off the highway as I was turning around in a driveway) - he even threatened to arrest the caretaker of the property where the accident took place for "obstruction of justice" when he offered to store the bike for me until I recovered. The cop delayed the ambulance while I lay there in agony - questioning me and my passenger, running wants and warrants on me and the bike, and trying figure out a way to keep my motorcycle!

Bastard.

So I now take a keen interest in California law, my rights, and jurisdictional boundaries

Interesting fact - 3 miles out, and you cant be prosecuted for drunk boating under state law either. Sail boaters can't be prosecuted unless they are under power - some traditions die hard - but at 5 knots, you are more of a danger to yourself than others I suppose, though I'm not saying getting blind drunk on the high seas is a good idea....

12 miles out and international maritime law kicks in - anything goes.... sort of. It gets complicated. There are economic exclusion zones, and wildlife protection zones and other weird boundaries that extend sometimes 100s of miles off shore. The US claims these for it's waters, but refuses to recognize other nation's similar claims. It's a mess, and it's getting worse with the melting of the Polar Ice cap and the opening of potential shipping routes and fisheries.

It's up to you guys. I'd try filing for the refund and see what happens. Certainly ALL of the trailered, unregistered cars qualify, and probably everyone. My little civic used to burn through at least 10 or 15 gallons over the course of a weekend practice and championship - more when there were fun runs and multiple drivers. I shudder to think what all those 'vetts and Mustangs guzzle out there on course.

A lot of money is being left on the table, you guys may as well try to grab your fair share of it. If they give you a hard time, just install a gun rack, throw a quart of Round-up in the tire sprayer, and a bag of manure in the passenger seat (No, Ekstand does NOT QUALIFY), and call it a "farm vehicle"

Can you imagine how much fuel is burned at a Pro-Solo / National event?



BH :king:

But some of the trailered cars are registered as non-op; that's still registered.

Bill Hogan wrote:Farmer John keeps his pick-up truck registered with the DMV for highway use so he can legally drive it into Fresno to sell his produce, get drunk at a cowboy bar, and pick-up toothless hookers. This use does not qualify for the rebate. However, he also logs fuel use on his 10,000 acre farm. His tasks include monitoring those lazy, overpaid immigrant farm workers who slack off while picking grapes, irrigating his crops with government subsidized water, voting republican, dumping fertilizer, praising god, spraying pesticides, and shooting crows, coyotes and hippies with his shotgun. When he's done, he files a gas tax refund claim. When the check arrives, he heads back to town to purchase more beer and hookers, thus completing the economic cycle.

ROTFLMAO.

I can't see how I can get around it, my trailered car is still registered, just non-operational (on public streets and highways). I don't think I'd like to invite an audit over the few bucks I may be able to get refunded.

Hmmmmm,

I see your point.

I love your example.

What we need is a test case, preferably by someone versed in the laws of Kalifornia. Someone who is a real "bulldog" when he thinks he is right. I don't think there would be any (audit) kickback if a rebate request was filed. You would either get it or not.

Any takers?

The math is pretty easy to calc # events, #runs, my mpg on course is about 6 mpg so we are talking about maybe 2 gallons per person (driver) per event, say 24 events (2 regions plus bmw/pca/hpde) = 48 gallons per year x 3 years + 150 gallons of qualified gas every 3 years.150 x 18 cents is a whopping $27 bucks.

As much as I would like to stick it to the Sacto idiots it hardly seems worth the trouble. Only makes sense if the region could claim it on behalf of all members, I don't think that's possible.

:unimpressed:

Bob Plante wrote:Hmmmmm,

I see your point.

I love your example.

What we need is a test case, preferably by someone versed in the laws of Kalifornia. Someone who is a real "bulldog" when he thinks he is right. I don't think there would be any (audit) kickback if a rebate request was filed. You would either get it or not.

Any takers?

The math is pretty easy to calc # events, #runs, my mpg on course is about 6 mpg so we are talking about maybe 2 gallons per person (driver) per event, say 24 events (2 regions plus bmw/pca/hpde) = 48 gallons per year x 3 years + 150 gallons of qualified gas every 3 years.150 x 18 cents is a whopping $27 bucks.

As much as I would like to stick it to the Sacto idiots it hardly seems worth the trouble. Only makes sense if the region could claim it on behalf of all members, I don't think that's possible.

:unimpressed:

Maybe it would pay if you autocrossed one of these:

http://bit.ly/7KfAvc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nothing runs like a Deere!

Sebastian Rios wrote:. I don't think I'd like to invite an audit over the few bucks I may be able to get refunded.

WISEMAN^^^^ DONT DICK AROUND WITH THE IRS.

Your math is a bit different than mine, and apparently your gas mileage too!

6mpg? Not in my Civic, not with my foot in it. Maybe 2 or 3. Maybe. Big Cam, supercharger, big injectors, big fuel pump... It's more like gallons per minute on course. I don't know what those 3,500lb V8s and Turbo evos suck down, but it's got to be a lot more than my Civic. Remember - all the gas consumed on the property - idling in grid, Reving at the start, coming off course, tuning up in the paddock, driving to get a cheese burger and 3 skanky, burned out Fontana hookers for umbrella girls from the truck stop up the street count.

(Ok, well, maybe not that last part....)

It's clearly not worth it for an individual. - 3 or 4 dollars? big deal. 3 or 4 dollars times 300? Now we're talking real money. It might be worth it if you aggregate it all however. How many runs at a summer practice? 1000+ right? How much fuel does each run burn on average, including all the ancilliary stuff on site? 1/4 gallon? 1/2? 1? I've run out of fuel on course enough times to know it's substantial, even in an economy car. Now double the weight for a big mustang or evo. Autocross is all either flat out acceleration or threshold braking, with a little feathering of each entering and exiting corners - lots, and lots of corners! Hell, I used to use the throttle to steer my car when it started swapping ends (often).

Basically, each event is a noisy, smelly orgy of ego driven, fuel wasting, air polluting, global warming, polar bear extincting competitive madness. It's a blood orgy, but instead of blood, the participants bathe themselves in explosive 91 octane non renewable fossil fuel, hot tire rubber, and anti-freeze!

Hooray!

The idea of getting a tax rebate from the State Government for such anti-social behavior is simply AWESOME, and Cal Club should GO FOR IT before they close the loophole.

Seriously.... I miss racing with you guys sometimes!

Bill Hogan wrote:It's a blood orgy, but instead of blood, the participants bathe themselves in explosive 91 octane non renewable fossil fuel, hot tire rubber, and anti-freeze

A couple events ago, Mike even bathed himself in Mobil 1.

We looked into this when we used to run the toll roads a lot. The state said no dice. Also, a lot of construction companies have been getting in trouble for running red dyed diesel in off road service trucks(the trucks never touch public highways) because they have the ability to be licensed. As I read it in the California Transportation News(dump truck/construction news letter) if the vehicle has the potential for being used on the street you have to pay road taxes on the fuel. The AG exemption was more for the use of their quads and gas powered pumps. When I worked at the mill we could have filed for the road tax refund for the fuel used my the gas powered forklifts but the paperwork required negated the savings. Someone could try if they want, but I doubt they will get anywhere with it.

Interesting -

It's not how the law is written - but of course the bureaucrats will try to convince you otherwise - it means more paperwork for them.

As a side line, now the State of California is going to start coming after you for sales tax on out of state internet purchases - back taxes too.

So, look - pay the 18cents per gallon, and don't challenge them. As a dyed in the wool, big government, big spending liberal, I believe in paying my share of taxes.

...and not one penny more...

=)

BH