Cal Club Autocross Forums

Hi all,
Just wanted to get some feedback on the ST Civics running in STX.
It's been said that these cars can win in ST, STX and STU, but nationally they usually compete in ST.

I think a few ladies ran STX last event and some are running this event.
Isn't there an STL or STXL to be run in? It seems like it ruins the class regionally.

Also, I see alot of champs run in PAX. This seems to keep it fun for local drivers. Is this a courtesy?

Sorry if it's a dumb question/topic, but I thought I would throw this out there for some insight.

STX should be faster than ST, so having some of the ST Ladies run STX should not be a concern for regular STX competitors.

Mind you, the ST Ladies obviously think they can beat the STX cars, so I would imagine it will be a very fun class to watch.

Nothing wrong with that at all.

Max Hayter wrote:STX should be faster than ST, so having some of the ST Ladies run STX should not be a concern for regular STX competitors.
Mind you, the ST Ladies obviously think they can beat the STX cars, so I would imagine it will be a very fun class to watch.
Nothing wrong with that at all.

It looks like from the finals that STX times were slower. Hey there's a Civic there! So there's nothing preventing ST Civics from spreading to STX?

Street Touring Category
T 1 25 Bill Bounds 1989 Honda Civic Si Wht 60.830 + 59.228 = 120.058
T 2 186 Patrick Washburn 1989 Honda Civic Red,Wh 61.114 + 59.811 = 120.925
T 3 177 Jason Frank 1989 Honda Civic Si 60.780 + 60.253 = 121.033

Street Touring Xtreme
T 1 177 Bryce Merideth 1997 BMW 328is 61.280 + 60.485 = 121.765
T 2 48 Jason Isley 2005 Mazda RX-8 Slv 61.406 + 60.638 = 122.044
T 3 52 Jim Reyenga 1989 Honda Civic Si Wht 62.058 + 60.659 = 122.717

KJ and his RX8 won our last event so I'm sure he won't make it too easy for the ST ladies or gents that wants a crack at it. }:)

Maybe the time difference at nationals that you are seeing is due to class factors as opposed to raw times.

Theo Osifeso wrote:KJ and his RX8 won our last event so I'm sure he won't make it too easy for the ST ladies or gents that wants a crack at it. }:)

Maybe the time difference at nationals that you are seeing is due to class factors as opposed to raw times.

STX PAX is tougher than ST PAX, therefore STX should be faster than ST.

ST Civics are legal in STX. In fact, in STX trim they can add a diff to make them even faster.

Michael Smith wrote:
It looks like from the finals that STX times were slower.

I'm not sure that one year data (one point data) is statistically significant. It hasn't always been the case where ST was faster than STX.

Max Hayter wrote:ST Civics are legal in STX. In fact, in STX trim they can add a diff to make them even faster.

Correct. I don't think he was questioning the legality.

Michael Smith wrote:Hi all,
Just wanted to get some feedback on the ST Civics running in STX.
It's been said that these cars can win in ST, STX and STU, but nationally they usually compete in ST.

I think a few ladies ran STX last event and some are running this event.
Isn't there an STL or STXL to be run in? It seems like it ruins the class regionally.

Also, I see alot of champs run in PAX. This seems to keep it fun for local drivers. Is this a courtesy?

Sorry if it's a dumb question/topic, but I thought I would throw this out there for some insight.

On the SCCA Forums you will find a thread about this.

Michael, if you were running in the STX class, would you be worried about the car beating you, or the ladies?

I've come to the conclusion that the guys are upset because they are/will get beat by the girls and that is probably why Theo moved to CST :gpower:

We (minus Ken) all have been beat by Leslie Cohen!

I missed PAX last event because of work. That said, I'm not positive I won't run STX all year. Didn't have a class last year.... The ST cars (especially local) have been much further developed than the local STX cars. I beat the girls last event - not sure why. They should have beat me given how the car was handling. The RX8 needs a LOT of development and with busy season here, it isn't really happening that fast.

I'm a little concerned that we may be killing the enthusiasm of what was a very lively class last year.

Lily Liu wrote:I'm not sure that one year data (one point data) is statistically significant. It hasn't always been the case where ST was faster than STX.

The most recent national finals data is the most significant to look at. Rules change and the formula to perfect a chassis improves.

This is a great discussion so far. Thanks everyone for the input.

Jeff Wong wrote:

Michael Smith wrote:Hi all,
Just wanted to get some feedback on the ST Civics running in STX.
It's been said that these cars can win in ST, STX and STU, but nationally they usually compete in ST.

I think a few ladies ran STX last event and some are running this event.
Isn't there an STL or STXL to be run in? It seems like it ruins the class regionally.

Also, I see alot of champs run in PAX. This seems to keep it fun for local drivers. Is this a courtesy?

Sorry if it's a dumb question/topic, but I thought I would throw this out there for some insight.

On the SCCA Forums you will find a thread about this.

Michael, if you were running in the STX class, would you be worried about the car beating you, or the ladies?

I've come to the conclusion that the guys are upset because they are/will get beat by the girls and that is probably why Theo moved to CST :gpower:

We (minus Ken) all have been beat by Leslie Cohen!

I'm glad you put probably Since, I don't think it's remotely possible for you to know my motivation. I also ran in "ST" last year and "ES" in my MR2 the year before, I go where I think I'll have fun. I'm a green horn and still learning how things work.

How useful is the latest nationals data though?
When did the two classes run? Were conditions similar?

Michael Smith wrote:

Lily Liu wrote:I'm not sure that one year data (one point data) is statistically significant. It hasn't always been the case where ST was faster than STX.

The most recent national finals data is the most significant to look at. Rules change and the formula to perfect a chassis improves.

I think you may be looking too much into rules and chassis improvement formulas and forgetting about the pool of EXTREMELY TALENTED drivers in ST at the last Nationals. That doesn't necessarily mean that their ST cars are faster than STX cars.

Lily Liu wrote:

Michael Smith wrote:

Lily Liu wrote:I'm not sure that one year data (one point data) is statistically significant. It hasn't always been the case where ST was faster than STX.

The most recent national finals data is the most significant to look at. Rules change and the formula to perfect a chassis improves.

I think you may be looking too much into rules and chassis improvement formulas and forgetting about the pool of EXTREMELY TALENTED drivers in ST at the last Nationals. That doesn't necessarily mean that their ST cars are faster than STX cars.

STX didn't exactly suck in the talent pool either (Isley and Bauer, neither of whom won!).

That being said, could one argue that the courses at Nationals this year favored lighter, more agile cars?

Michael Smith wrote: The most recent national finals data is the most significant to look at. Rules change and the formula to perfect a chassis improves.

This is a great discussion so far. Thanks everyone for the input.

Michael, that just simply is not true. The two classes do not run at the same time, in fact, I think that ST ran tue/wed and stx and stu ran thur/fri. One could have run in the morning at a temp of 50 to 60 degrees and one could have run at 80 degrees. One could have had a "dirty" track and one clean, etc..... Oh, yes and what Max said---the course could favor one type over another....

Don

Jeff Wong wrote:We (minus Ken) all have been beat by Leslie Cohen!

Paul Whitehead says Leslie's balls are a lot bigger than his. I'm not going to verify this, but I believe it.

We've also all been beat by Kendra. Does that count???

your not really afraid of being beat by some girls are you?



it's ok, it really only hurts the first time.

Theo Osifeso wrote:KJ and his RX8 won our last event so I'm sure he won't make it too easy for the ST ladies or gents that wants a crack at it. }:)

Maybe the time difference at nationals that you are seeing is due to class factors as opposed to raw times.

I think its pretty clear that an ST civic would have an easier time trophying at in nationals in STX than ST. Maybe not winning, though maybe so... But ST at nationals is WAY WAY deeper.

I see one of this already hopefully this is not getting personal. If there is anything, it about cars and not the really nice people who drive them and I mean that.

Here's one of the interesting threads on SCCA forums.
http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/382402.aspx

Don Salyers wrote:

Michael Smith wrote: The most recent national finals data is the most significant to look at. Rules change and the formula to perfect a chassis improves.

This is a great discussion so far. Thanks everyone for the input.

Michael, that just simply is not true. The two classes do not run at the same time, in fact, I think that ST ran tue/wed and stx and stu ran thur/fri. One could have run in the morning at a temp of 50 to 60 degrees and one could have run at 80 degrees. One could have had a "dirty" track and one clean, etc..... Oh, yes and what Max said---the course could favor one type over another....

Don

Okay, I see that now. thx

In SoCal we have a proud history of some of the very best ladies in the history of the sport.

JoAnne Lynch, Rita Wilsey, Lori Robertson, Belinda Endress, Leslie Cohen...

The newer champions like Christine Berry, Beverley Larsson, Katy Nichols, Lisa Berry, Theresa Berry, Jennifer Isley, Mari Clements, Julie Avard, Shawn Kiesel...

The will be champions someday... Shauna Rios and Nicole Nagler...

Our instructor czar and driver hotshoe Lisa Severy.

I'm sure I left people out, but there are so many.... If you haven't been beat by one in this region, chances are you're just running a safe class....

Max Hayter wrote: STX didn't exactly suck in the talent pool either (Isley and Bauer, neither of whom won!).

Didn't mean it in that sense. Just trying to say that Mike appears to be looking into numbers as if they were the absolute factor and not thinking about the other points that matter as well

Uh I just put a down payment on Jeff Barco's STX WRX, now i have to run with the Girls, oh sh#$.