A rant and an explination....

[Bill Schenker]

...as to why I'm such a pain in the a$$, nazi Solo Safety Steward (SSS).

What happened to the Georgian luger yesterday has really made me angry. The is NO justification as to why those steel girders where so close to the course, or if they have to be (doubt it!), why weren't covered with a solid, padded wall (just padding, w/o having something to deflect off would do little)?! Inexcusable. And if someone says the athlete's know the dangers of their sport, that's sheer crap. It's the athletes job to go as fast as they can, it's the official's job to make sure that they can as safely as possible. It's sheer criminality that they left those girders exposed like. Something similar happened like that in World Cup Downhill - open netting at the edge of the course, racer's tip tip caught it has he tracked out to the fence. It practically tore him in two . Bled out like 6 qts. on the hill. Somehow he survived, and even went back a few years later and raced there again. After that, organizers started putting smooth plastic at the edge of courses - problem solved. And now a wall's been built for the lugers to glance off of if they wipe out.

Unfortunately, it seems that someone has to die or nearly die for officials to do something about it. I hope like that that Canadian racer, the family sues the h*ll out of the organizers; it is probably the only way this stupid, completely avoidable situation won't be repeated. Rant over.
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And now an explanation as to why I'm such a hard head when I'm the SSS. I got hurt when I was a 18 yr. old junior. was ranked 33rd in the world for juniors, despite my having to deal w/my childhood asthma. My career was cut short by macho coaches/officials that had u s run a Downhill that wasn't safe.

So, I'm real sensitive about safety. And trust me, it's not 'cause I think we go so fast and it's so scary; compared to what I used to do, Solo is like walking a baby carriage down the sidewalk - o.k., a really souped up baby carriage pushing it as fast as you can It's because I don't want people to get hurt and maybe not be able to play at what we all love doing. So when I yell at people and hold up the event because they are clumping up (Mihai!), yaking and ultimately not paying attention to cars whizzing by at 60mph. Or working under the car w/o a jack stand.

So, the next time you get mad at me because I yelled at you, remember that Georgian luger, and you'll know why I'm being such a hard nose.

[Steve Ekstrand]

You're still a safety nazi.....

But I agree 100% with you about the exposed hazards at the sliding course. Its inexcusable.

And people who work under cars without jackstands should die, so they don't pollute our gene pool.

Clumping on course? Is that legal in California?

[Steve Towers]

What Mr. Ekstrand said. Clumping? WTF?

I'm a proponent of safe. Almost all of us get lax from time to time, but if an SSS "Nazi" has something to say, everyone needs to listen. Might save your butt. Folks need to keep their thinkers turned on. Anyone that has seen me working course in my day-glo green t-shirt should know it's about safety - MINE! I want to be seen by the drivers such that I'm not an invisible target.

Bill - I do have one small, tiny issue with your SSS actions. From time to time we'll see two course workers in close proximity (3-4 feet) but it's not necessarily buddy talk. I have taken many novices out on course to instruct them (and show them) on what to do and have been admonised on several occasions about (clumping?) being too close together. In that situation it's required. That's how you teach. Do we need to be close for the whole run group? No. But certainly for a portion of it.

What happened at the Luge was horrific. It's beyond me how what happened wasn't (apparently) thought out ahead of time. Fast track? Sure. First track ever? Nope.

[Dan Shaw]

...thought it was more from driving the Miata with no seat padding too long... }:)

I agree though, and am in it with you. Rather than possibly spending a buck they'd rather risk taking a life, or diminishing the quality of the life involved. As if we haven't learned in other forms of sport that doing that is a recipe to have the unthinkable actually happen (Ayrton Senna, Barry Sheene, Dale Earnhardt, etc). The luger is on a long list of slap-in-the-face casualties. Just a shame we can't learn from what's already been learned and apply it elsewhere without someone going, "How can I squeeze a little more out of this...that looks like a good shortcut!" :unimpressed:

[Will Kalman]

But you can't guard against every possible scenario. Is it common or known for lugers to get bounced completely off the track? Is there something about the design/contour of this track that's different than hundreds of others? Were experts consulted/contracted to design, build and approve it? Do we go so far as to make the track into tube with no chance of fly-out? Even then a luger could fly off the inside of a turn and slam into the outside of the turn.

Yes, it's easy to look back and say this or that should have been done - the past is linear and predictable, the future is neither. Why in Solo do we have minimum distances to objects? So that there is NO chance of a collision? No, we are *always* taking a statistical chance, there are no guarantees.

Questioning the design of the luge track in hindsight is like saying that the SCCA Solo Safety program would be at fault for an incident because it did not mandate that courses should be separated from the paddock and worker stations by k-rails, energy-absorbing systems, and remote car shutdowns - all of which would be obvious preventions in hindsight.

Do we outlaw open cars because Henry Surtees was killed by a wayward wheel? It's an obvious, known, effective, and economical solution, why isn't anyone taking action? Surely someone is at fault for not stopping all open-car racing immediately?

Personally, I think that if the best luge course designers were involved in designing and approving the course and best practices utilized, then it *does* take an incident to re-adjust the statistics and risk assessments.

That said, Bill, I agree with your strong stand on Solo safety and I know there was at least one time in the last ten years that I was not going to run a course because I felt it unsafe despite an approval from "experts". Lugers have that option, too.

[Theo O.]

At some point individuals have to take personal responsibility for their safety. Under the best circumstances lugging is a dangerous sport.

[Craig Naylor]

While I agree it looks like a no brainier in retrospect, I'll have to agree with Will, that one can't predict every possible outcome.

From what I have heard there were two contributing factors, well according to the media, which NEVER sensationalizes anything. Inexperience on anyone's part on this particular course as the Canadians wouldn't allow access to practice prior to last week in an attempt to increase their own chances in the event. And the 50/50 corner name it achieved during that week (~50% of all runs ended on that corner with an issue of some sort or another.)

The first one was, well, unsportsmanlike of the host country, and definitely contributed to the second. The second one, well, a new challenging course is not necessary a bad thing either, but did any of those many many wipe outs lead anyone to beleive one might exit the top of the turn, vs. flipping in the tube. (Which at 90+mph was it's own safety issue). No amount of padding was going to make a difference in this case. The solution of extending the top wall of the tube appears to have worked, though I wonder if it has it's own issue if it hasn't been iced with the rest of the tube (don't know no one has addressed that in the media....)

Definitely tragic, obviously something was learned, was it blatantly obvious? I'm no expert, I only watch the event during the Olympics, but I can't recall in the last 20 yrs or so anyone jumping out of the top of a turn.

[Bill Martin]

I hafta agree with Bill (Jeez that hurt). People come off the sleds all the time and are totally at the mercy of ballistics. I assume the pillars just support the roof and that could have been accomplished with a cantilevered structure from much further to the side. You'd think there would be catch nets or something like they have for Downhill. I doubt any reasonable pillar padding would work...the guy went 90 to zero in milliseconds. Doesn't seem survivable. I suppose it's all 20/20 hindsight, but you'd think safety would be more integral to the design process. Bet it will be in the future.

[Bill Schenker]

...Bill - I do have one small, tiny issue with your SSS actions. From time to time we'll see two course workers in close proximity (3-4 feet) but it's not necessarily buddy talk. I have taken many novices out on course to instruct them (and show them) on what to do and have been admonised on several occasions about (clumping?) being too close together. In that situation it's required. That's how you teach. Do we need to be close for the whole run group? No. But certainly for a portion of it....

Understood and agreed. And a few times (not every time like I should) I've said in the safety meeting (not optional, George!) that if you're mentoring someone to please let me know so I know what's going on. If you don't let me or the Chief of Workers know, how can I know that you're not talking about the newest waitress at you neighborhood Hooters?

[Bill Schenker]

Will and Craig: Sliders have been flying off course from the beginning, so no fluke here. And are you really going to trot out the "no one can plan for every eventuality" nonsense? Planning for the possibility of alien abduction mid course, no, no way to do that. Put multiple upright steel girders one ft. off the line? Seriously? You don't see the potential hazard? Sorry, but I cam from a macho high risk sport (just like luge or car racing) where to admit fear was never "allowed". This attitude lead to literally missing things right in front of one's noses. IMNSHO, that's what happened here.

Let's see if this parallel makes sense to you. Do our cars ever "get air"? No, but you think that means it's be o.k. for our courses to pass under bridges w/1" of head room over the tallest vehicle that runs? No, I didn't think so...

And Theo: yes, the luger has the right to walk away. But really? (S)he makes it to a world-wide event that only happens once every 4 yrs. that (s)he may have been working the majority of his/her young life with a dedication that few "civilians" know, to reach. And you're asking him/her to just walk away? Really? The athlete works his butt off, risks life and limb. That's what (s)he brings. I think designers/managers/officials/organizers should do what they're supposed to bring: design/manage/officiate/organize. Safety is the one universal responsibility of ALL the aforementioned.


And Bill, don't worry, the pain goes away after a few days.

[Will Kalman]

Knowing that lugers are ejected from the track on some type of regular basis makes for a very strong case for your statement, Bill. Thanks for the info.

The "no one can plan for every eventuality" nonsense isn't nonsense. How can you prove that you've accounted for everything? How do you account for the things you don't (yet) know?

[Mako Koiwai]

But really? (S)he makes it to a world-wide event that only happens once every 4 yrs. that (s)he may have been working the majority of his/her young life with a dedication that few "civilians" know, to reach.

One of the problems with the Olympics is that one unfortunately gets entries that are not world class with years of training. Smaller countries without a lot of internal competition in a particular sport allow individual "athletes" to represent them, perhaps so that they, both the country and the individual, can have international exposure. Famous examples of this was an African cross country skier who would end his Olympic races an hour behind his competitors. There was fear that Eddie the Eagle, the English "amateur" ski jumper would kill himself on the huge ski flying hills. There have been newish downhill ski racers who would skid their skis down the hill trying to keep their speeds down. Unfortunately the Olympic organization itself has been guilty of creating this problem by helping and encouraging participants from countries, that in the case of the Winter Olympics, never even have snow! Sometimes these participants are simply wealthy kids from overseas who happen to go to school in Aspen, etc.

Often these back markers are popular with the spectators as it gives them a "common man" to cheer on, but in the Higher, Faster events the results can be deadly. The Georgian luger that died was fairly new to the sport ... and apparently did express the unmentionable to his family that he WAS Scared.

[Max Hayter]

Understood and agreed. And a few times (not every time like I should) I've said in the safety meeting (not optional, George!) that if you're mentoring someone to please let me know so I know what's going on. If you don't let me or the Chief of Workers know, how can I know that you're not talking about the newest waitress at you neighborhood Hooters?

How do you know if you need to mentor someone at a worker station, until you get out there? You have no idea who you will be working with and people show up and go, "Hi, my name is Billy Bob and I have no clue what to do".

I also think it is wrong to immediately start screaming across the parking lot at people. Just have a word with the radio chief and have them tell people to spread out. Walk out there if you have more concerns. Screaming at people is not the way to go and leaves a nasty taste in the mouth to all involved.

[John Coffey]

FYI... That Georgian luger (Nodar Kumaritashvili) had 26 runs on that exact course since 2007 when it opened. He knew the course and hadn't had any previous offs.

[Bill Schenker]

Understood and agreed. And a few times (not every time like I should) I've said in the safety meeting (not optional, George!) that if you're mentoring someone to please let me know so I know what's going on. If you don't let me or the Chief of Workers know, how can I know that you're not talking about the newest waitress at you neighborhood Hooters?

How do you know if you need to mentor someone at a worker station, until you get out there? You have no idea who you will be working with and people show up and go, "Hi, my name is Billy Bob and I have no clue what to do".

I also think it is wrong to immediately start screaming across the parking lot at people. Just have a word with the radio chief and have them tell people to spread out. Walk out there if you have more concerns. Screaming at people is not the way to go and leaves a nasty taste in the mouth to all involved.

Max- in my case, SSSing the Jan. events, I tried multiple times on the radio. Multiple times. I'd ask Master Radio to ask the people to spread. I'd tell people in both Driver Mtgs. not to "clump" together. I'd then go out and and shout, to be heard, to separate. After all that, then I'd start screaming at people. And after all that didn't work, I stopped the event twice. How much must one do? There was nothing "immediate" to my screaming at people. And unfortunately, screaming at people wasn't the final unfortunate step - stopping the event was. I don't like yelling at people. It's not my first reaction. It came after all my other efforts failed.

I tell you, Max, I've been directly impacted by poor officiating in ski racing. It's made me very sensitive to the subject. I literally saved a person from being hit by a car in '08 in that nightmare of a grid @ HPT - pulled him out of the way of a car that he crossed in front of with the driver having no time to stop. I'm sure there are times that I over react, Max, given my own sensitivity. My original post was a way, using my anger of what happened to that luger, to try to explain why
I take this so seriously.

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As far as not knowing who a newbie is, point taken. I have made announcements during driver's mtgs. to the newbies to to make themselves know to 'the guy that signs you in to work", but I bet I didn't say that @ the Jan. Driver's mtgs. And that is a pretty good way, I think, to handle this: in the Driver's mtg., ask the newbies to identify themselves to the worker check-in. One of the reasons I've always said it is perhaps one of the least appreciated Chief positions. A Worker Chief can make an event run significantly smoother, and in this case, help a new person understand how to work a course properly by teaming them up w/an experienced driver that will hopefully teach them the right habits.

[Mako Koiwai]

FYI... That Georgian luger (Nodar Kumaritashvili) had 26 runs on that exact course since 2007 when it opened. He knew the course and hadn't had any previous offs.

Weird that on NBC they reported that "foreign" competitors" were not allowed to practice on the course in order to preserve the home field advantage for the Canadians. I hate it when they're so cavalier with the facts!

It has a vertical drop of 152 metres, greater than any other sliding facility in the world.

The No. 13 curve is called 50/50 because when the track opened athletes suggested there was only a 50 per cent chance of making the corner unscathed. Said Canadian slider Ian Cockerline: "I've crashed at 13 three times in training. It is so fast and it's a big relief if you get that corner right. It's not called 50/50 for nothing."

Earlier this week Andy Schmid, performance director of British Skeleton, criticized Canadian authorities who decided to limit practice time for overseas competitors to only 40 training runs. Canadian competitors had 300-plus runs.

The start of the run is almost all vertical and the corners plunge the depth of three-storey buildings. The 1,450-metre course has been described as "an elevator shaft with ice." Sliders can surpass 150 km/h and experience G-forces comparable to that of military pilots in jets.

"It's a great ride, for sure," said Erin Hamlin, the U.S. luge team's top medal hope. "I like the challenge, so that makes it interesting."

A.J. Rosen, Britain's only luge racer, has been chewed up and spit out by the snarling Whistler monster. During a training run in October, Rosen dislocated a hip and suffered nerve damage in a wreck.

Canadian luger Sam Edney said: "In a ski slalom race, sometimes some of the guys don't make it down, but they don't stop everything and look at the course and say, `Oh, my God' we have to change it.

"The track has proven safe. Touch wood I've not crashed at corner 13. But I've crashed four or five times up in the top section, but that doesn't get so much play because it's not as fast there."

[Max Hayter]

You should try to 'explain' your spelling in the thread title

[George Schilling]

And a few times (not every time like I should) I've said in the safety meeting (not optional, George!) that if you're mentoring someone to please let me know so I know what's going on.

Whether to have a safety meeting or not is not my choice. That would be up to the safety steward. My opinion is that experienced autoxer's shouldn't be compelled to attend a drivers' meeting unless there is new information to present. Apparently most agree with me as getting experienced people to attend a drivers meeting is like pulling teeth. When they do attend, they tend to engage in disruptive side conversations that are distracting to the new people who really need to hear the information. This is why I stress a novice meeting at events I'm running rather than a general meeting.

As far as clumping, wouldn't it be a novel idea to let the head corner worker decide how to utilize his workers. As long as they're in a safe position and getting the job done, why is that a concern of safety? I ask this question sincerely.

-George

[Max Hayter]

Sometimes, there are good reasons for 'clumping'. Like, it's the only safe place to stand!

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Some of the competitors said the course is too fast—world record speed for luge was set there, about 95 mph—but now that they've moved the starts lower there are complaints about it being too slow.

No padding on those vertical supports would have saved the Georgian's life.

[Mako Koiwai]

No padding on those vertical supports would have saved the Georgian's life.

Padding might have helped ... the right type of padding ... but "No padding" certainly didn't help. ;)

[Bob Beamesderfer]

No padding on those vertical supports would have saved the Georgian's life.

Padding might have helped ... the right type of padding ... but "No padding" certainly didn't help. ;)

"would have" ... What I wrote means that no type of padding would have prevented his death; he struck with too much speed. The video is frightening.

[Theo O.]

Sometimes, there are good reasons for 'clumping'. Like, it's the only safe place to stand!

I agree. Sometimes I stand next to a light pole, which is often where the radio guy is. As long as I can get to the cones that I'm watching quickly and pass necessary information to the radio guy. I like the safety of hidding behind the light pole.

[Max Hayter]

Sometimes, there are good reasons for 'clumping'. Like, it's the only safe place to stand!

I agree. Sometimes I stand next to a light pole, which is often where the radio guy is. As long as I can get to the cones that I'm watching quickly and pass necessary information to the radio guy. I like the safety of hiding behind the light pole.

In SD two weeks ago, Brian Peters, Doug Rowse and I were clumping. I was on the radio, Doug was covering one end of a Chicago box, Brian the other. We stood together, partly to make fun of each other running, but also we felt it was the only safe spot, especially with Randy Chase barreling towards you with his ABSless Noble. All three of us moved an extra 30 ft back when Randy approached (whilst still clumping!)

[Tom Denham]

Sometimes, there are good reasons for 'clumping'. Like, it's the only safe place to stand!

I agree. Sometimes I stand next to a light pole, which is often where the radio guy is. As long as I can get to the cones that I'm watching quickly and pass necessary information to the radio guy. I like the safety of hiding behind the light pole.

In SD two weeks ago, Brian Peter, Doug Rowse and I were clumping. I was on the radio, Doug was covering one end of a Chicago box, Brian the other. We stood together, partly to make fun of each other running, but also we felt it was the only safe spot, especially with Randy Chase barreling towards you with his ABSless Noble. All three of us moved an extra 30 ft back when Randy approached (whilst still clumping!)

^^^Smart, sometimes the Radio man NEEDS an extra set of eyes, for spinning cars,numbers and chasing cones.