Cal Club Autocross Forums

They are no competition, period. In fact they are a venue where I go and talk about how awesome SCCA events are and bring more people to our events. They hold maybe 3 events a year. I got introduced to autocross through BMW CCA LA where I was TOLD about SCCA.

Why is it that all these threads get's posted about other events and any simple mention of BMW results in harassment PM's to Point's card holder, Paying SCCA member and regular contributors to the club? The best way to maintain membership is by not chasing away current members and creating an atmosphere of bias.

Some of us drive BMW's and we don't want to be forced to be closet BMW lovers. It is not fair to delete those threads and leave others open.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2796&p=44362&hilit= ... 2c0#p44362
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3245&p=49767&hilit= ... 2c0#p49767
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3320&p=50563&hilit=porsche#p50563

Theo Osifeso wrote:They are no competition, period. In fact they are a venue where I go and talk about how awesome SCCA events are and bring more people to our events. They hold maybe 3 events a year. I got introduced to autocross through BMW CCA LA where I was TOLD about SCCA.

Why is it that all these threads get's posted about other events and any simple mention of BMW results in harassment PM's to Point's card holder, Paying SCCA member and regular contributors to the club? The best way to maintain membership is by not chasing away current members and creating an atmosphere of bias.

Some of us drive BMW's and we don't want to be forced to be closet BMW lovers. It is not fair to delete those threads and leave others open.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2796&p=44362&hilit= ... 2c0#p44362
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3245&p=49767&hilit= ... 2c0#p49767
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3320&p=50563&hilit=porsche#p50563

We delete the porsche ones too, guess you just don't see them. You do know it's the BMW owning and driving scca members that are the ones doin the deleting, right? Only one of those is even an autocross, in general we are pretty even about it. Yes if someone posts something right after nationals about a corvair autocross it may slip through.

And to be clear Theo, BMWCCA-LA and SD chapters do NOT, I repeat, DO NOT advertise us. Why? Why would they want to take away potential revenue customers. Again, I learned about SCCA through BMWCCA (an instructor showed me the way to SCCA) and now or when I was competing did both. That's fine for those that do both. We just don't need to advetise their events on our calendar or message boards. We're not here to promote another marque's club. Nothing against other organizations but we're here for our members that autocross with So Cal Solo II (aka Cal Club region - Solo racing).

Aaron, you and Mike and your awesome BMW's rock, you can delete anything you want plus I see you guys all the time. Let's just make it clear that the same rules applies to all and not intimidate new member that we are trying to keep or attract.

So are we not allowed to post about other autox/time trials at all - even the ones that don't conflict w/ a weekend our events are being held?

I had a lot of fun @ last year's Camarillo autox - would never have heard about it if it wasn't posted on this board.

I also hope Lone Pine is still happening this year - haven't heard about it at all yet.

Does the Starbucks website post announcements that a Peets is opening up across the street, Check'em out!

After all, you a member of the coffee drinking community. How would you even know about Peets if you hadn't read it on the Starbucks website??? You'll buy more Starbucks coffee if I'm drinking at Peets too.... Wait. That doesn't make sense.....

If starbucks only opened 2 out of 4 weekends a month, I'd like to know where I can get coffee the other 2 weekends.

Quoc-Viet Dang wrote:If starbucks only opened 2 out of 4 weekends a month, I'd like to know where I can get coffee the other 2 weekends.

Then that is up to YOU, the coffee drinker to seek out other coffee shops. It's not Starbucks responsibility to promote its competitors. The only other things that are allowed are SCCA related events (i.e. Cal Club road racing, rally, or another region's events, etc..). Notice Mr. Barrett's post about Time Trials? That's another type of racing but within our region (Cal Club). I don't know why this is hard to understand.

There's a difference between a web page and a web discussion forum in terms of what is appropriate to have posted there. Of course a corporate entity is unlikely to write up information about how to to find alternatives to their product. A club, maybe more likely. San Francisco region has an automated calendar that lists all the events from all the clubs in the area that post their schedules on the web in a consistent format. But perhaps they're the exception. On the other hand, a discussion forum by definition accepts messages posted by anyone who signs up for the forum, and dissenting viewpoints are expected, as well as just about any sort of information or discussion topic you can think of. Yes, the owner of the forum, who has spent their resources making it available, rightly has the final say on what is allowed and not allowed to be posted on the forum. But prohibiting discussion of competing clubs or their events seems a bit draconian or even desperate. It is not the norm. I can't believe that CSCC is in a position where desperation is appropriate.

PS -- being too restrictive can trigger the creation of alternative discussion forums and a decline in participation at the restrictive forum. I've seen it happen several times.

John Stimson wrote:There's a difference between a web page and a web discussion forum in terms of what is appropriate to have posted there. Of course a corporate entity is unlikely to write up information about how to to find alternatives to their product. A club, maybe more likely. San Francisco region has an automated calendar that lists all the events from all the clubs in the area that post their schedules on the web in a consistent format. But perhaps they're the exception. On the other hand, a discussion forum by definition accepts messages posted by anyone who signs up for the forum, and dissenting viewpoints are expected, as well as just about any sort of information or discussion topic you can think of. Yes, the owner of the forum, who has spent their resources making it available, rightly has the final say on what is allowed and not allowed to be posted on the forum. But prohibiting discussion of competing clubs or their events seems a bit draconian or even desperate. It is not the norm. I can't believe that CSCC is in a position where desperation is appropriate.

Hey John, back when the economy was booming (mid 2000's), there was way, way, WAY more demand, than supply (i.e. our events), so thus it was common for myself (BMWCCA-LA chapter), Steve Eguina (PCA-Orange County region) to post about these auto-x events, etc... but now, that we have declining membership and participation, we as the region have to adapt and fight for every dollar. Posting about other organizations events draws away from our events (even if there isn't a conflict). Because if someone decides on 1 event instead of ours because of their finances assuming no confict, then we lose them as potential member. We have to adapt to the times John. Thank you for your input as you are from the San Francisco region and provide a different perspective.

John Stimson wrote:PS -- being too restrictive can trigger the creation of alternative discussion forums and a decline in participation at the restrictive forum. I've seen it happen several times.

Believe it or not, at one point, Bimmerforums - Track/Auto-x section moderators allowed ONLY BMWCCA or BMW-related type of events, until they loosened up their restrictions but even then, they still don't host any events, as they are just a website with forums on it.

John,
Very well said! Extremely easy to understand. What's even better than getting new members is not chasing away the ones you have so that they can bring more people in. This is a message board. No one is asking for an AD on the solo2.com website. The comparison is just weird.

By the way, saw some awesome CSCC guys today and I invited more people to join CSCC

It will be more effective if we don't censor members and let them go and demonstrate the superior skill they learn from CSCC, that will drive up our membership.

Theo Osifeso wrote:It will be more effective if we don't censor members and let them go and demonstrate the superior skill they learn from CSCC, that will drive up our membership.

Theo you're not understanding something. We do not allow advertising of other organization's events on our boards period. Now promoting our region while at another organization's events is great and encouraged. Just not the other way around. We are not chasing anyone away. We're not a clearinghouse for other orgs' calendar events.

And yes you're right...no one is asking for an 'advertisement here, because if they were they'd have to pay. But instead they're using the resources of this region (i.e. forum) for free to promote another org's event that could potential draw a member here to that org, and thus lose that member. Do you see my point? Now granted this is all well-meaning but it's what the region has decided.

And censoring? Well this isn't a political issue, it's the right of the org (Cal Club) to decide what's allowed to be posted in terms of advertising events. If you look at our calendar, I post only events that are SCCA related, with exceptions (i.e. Lone Pine, FSAE, Motorsports Z event) as those are annual events with a history with the region. This is the last point I'll make.

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote: Now promoting our region while at another organization's events is great and encouraged. Just not the other way around.

Did you read what you wrote?

Its bad enough you censor posts on the forum, now your going to sensor our verbal speech at event too?

Well you'd have to show up first I guess. }:)

Craig Naylor wrote:

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote: Now promoting our region while at another organization's events is great and encouraged. Just not the other way around.

Did you read what you wrote?

Yes I did. And what's quibble do you have with this? When at a BMWCCA or PCA or (fill in the blank), feel free to extol the virtues of our region and say "hey come to SCCA and compete against the best and get great instruction". Not advertise on our message boards in our region,. extoling the virtues of other organizations saying "hey go check out PCA/BMWCCA/fill-in the blank, where you get this and that and etc...."

Craig Naylor wrote:

Giovanni Jaramillo wrote: Now promoting our region while at another organization's events is great and encouraged. Just not the other way around.

Did you read what you wrote?

Its bad enough you censor posts on the forum, now your going to sensor our verbal speech at event too?

Well you'd have to show up first I guess. }:)

That's going too far Gio now we have to watch out for speech patrol along with cones

Hey, that can be a new position, we can have someone stroll around in the paddock and listening for unauthorized conversations a real life moderator but armed with a taser

Just messing with you Gio ;)

Craig Naylor wrote:Its bad enough you censor posts on the forum, now your going to sensor our verbal speech at event too?

Well you'd have to show up first I guess. }:)

Ah now I see what you mean. As long as you keep it quiet...... but you get my point Naylor. Stop being a troll for once.

Theo Osifeso wrote:Hey, that can be a new position, we can have someone stroll around in the paddock and listening for unauthorized conversations a real life moderator but armed with a taser

Just messing with you Gio ;)

Craig was just taking my words at a "literal" meaning. CSCC is not turning into IRAN!

My god! Do you have no sense of humor? Can you not see 3 LOL's following it???? I know it wasn't what you meant, BUT IT WAS WHAT YOU SAID!

What made it hilarious was after pointing it out you stood behind it. :gpower:

Craig Naylor wrote:My god! Do you have no sense of humor? Can you not see 3 LOL's following it???? I know it wasn't what you meant, BUT IT WAS WHAT YOU SAID!

What made it hilarious was after pointing it out you stood behind it. :gpower:

YES I do Craig and I got it. Here's 4 more smileys :gpower:

Touche....I'll proof-read next time

:gpower: