Cal Club Autocross Forums

Hi All,

Just received a red light traffic ticket. Shocker to me. So I went online and watched the video they recorded of my violation. I did enter the intersection after light turned red, however when I get out the stop watch and timed it. It was 3/10 of a second from when the light turned red till I enter the intersection. How can I fight this ticket?

Simon Lu wrote:I did enter the intersection after light turned red

Right there you're admitting guilt...big NO-NO.

Simon Lu wrote:however when I get out the stop watch and timed it. It was 3/10 of a second from when the light turned red till I enter the intersection.

No judge is going to care how many tenths of second the light was red when you JUST entered it. That tells the judge you should've been slowing down but you decided to coast. Just playing }:) 's advocate here.

Simon Lu wrote:How can I fight this ticket?

Ticket Assassin Tell me what the vehicle code number that you violated and I'll see if I have a template and e-mail it to you.

Simon Lu wrote:Hi All,

Just received a red light traffic ticket. Shocker to me. So I went online and watched the video they recorded of my violation. I did enter the intersection after light turned red, however when I get out the stop watch and timed it. It was 3/10 of a second from when the light turned red till I enter the intersection. How can I fight this ticket?

IMHO: What your going to need to do is go record a batch of signal changes from green to yellow to red. Then calculate the distance needed to stop from the posted speed limit to come to a stop, and how long that would take. The yellow needs to be at least that long. If it's longer especially if it's multiple times longer, your toast. If it's shorter than a full ABS lockup, then you may have a case to argue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ4axo9rmJY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Delay, delay, research, trial by declaration, delay, research, go to trial, hope the cop doesn't show, be prepared for trial if he does, ask for traffic school if found guilty.

It's just that simple and is how you fight every ticket.

George Schilling wrote:Delay, delay, research, trial by declaration, delay, research, go to trial, hope the cop doesn't show, be prepared for trial if he does, ask for traffic school if found guilty.

It's just that simple and is how you fight every ticket.

In 100% agreement with George.

• Camera takes picture - Day 1
• Ticket comes in the mail - Day 30
• Ticket bail due - Day 60; request 60 day extension
• Ticket bail due - Day 120; request trial by declaration, pay bail
• Declaration form arrives in mail - Day 130
• Submit defense - Day 160
• Found NOT GUILTY - Day 220
• Bail refunded - Day 260

There's a cop to come to trial in a red light camera case??? Who represents the gov't in those cases?

Steve Ekstrand wrote:There's a cop to come to trial in a red light camera case??? Who represents the gov't in those cases?

Oops. Don't know the answer to that Steve. I assume the City Prosecutor's, and maybe a representative from the camera contractor?

How about this then:

Delay, delay, research, trial by declaration; if denied, delay, research, prepare defense, go to trial, ask for traffic school if found guilty.

I think that at trial you'd have to argue the constitutionality of red light cameras. Just a guess as I haven't done the research. I have read that a lot of them do get dismissed. After you research, run your defense by us and we'll give you our opinion.

Steve Ekstrand wrote:There's a cop to come to trial in a red light camera case??? Who represents the gov't in those cases?

No cop but my guesss it's reviewer of all the photos taken to see if the driver/car warrants a ticket

Hi Guys,

Well, I took up on Craig's suggestiong. I test a few runs in my Matrix to see how fast I can stop. On the average, safely stop takes between 6 - 8 seconds from 40 MPH (local speed). I then review the video "Yes they give me a link to a video of my violation!!!" I counted it's about 5 - 6 seconds starting from when light turned yellow to red. Another factor, before this light, it's a left bend with rail road crossing. Before you pass the crossing you can not see the traffic light. So, now I just have to drive by the intersection on the way tomorrow and figure out how much of distance do I have between rail road crossing to traffic light. Either way my argument would be that it's a judgement call that I made is that it's safer to proceed to cross vs stopping rapidly and run the risk of skidding in to the intersection. Given that I have 2009 Toyota Matrix (on Toyota's recall list) I made the choice to proceed... And from the video, we can see that i missed the yellow light by 3/10 of a second.

Simon Lu wrote:Hi Guys,

Well, I took up on Craig's suggestiong. I test a few runs in my Matrix to see how fast I can stop. On the average, safely stop takes between 6 - 8 seconds from 40 MPH (local speed). I then review the video "Yes they give me a link to a video of my violation!!!" I counted it's about 5 - 6 seconds starting from when light turned yellow to red. Another factor, before this light, it's a left bend with rail road crossing. Before you pass the crossing you can not see the traffic light. So, now I just have to drive by the intersection on the way tomorrow and figure out how much of distance do I have between rail road crossing to traffic light. Either way my argument would be that it's a judgement call that I made is that it's safer to proceed to cross vs stopping rapidly and run the risk of skidding in to the intersection. Given that I have 2009 Toyota Matrix (on Toyota's recall list) I made the choice to proceed... And from the video, we can see that i missed the yellow light by 3/10 of a second.

There are traffic engineering studies you can access that suggest how long a light must remain yellow before turning red. I have heard that intersections with cameras often shorten the yellow to snare more people. Time the light and compare it with the traffic engineering studies. If it's a short yellow, that's a great defense. I'd work on as many angles as possible as you never know which one might resonate with the judge.

Simon Lu wrote:Hi Guys,

Given that I have 2009 Toyota Matrix (on Toyota's recall list) I made the choice to proceed... And from the video, we can see that i missed the yellow light by 3/10 of a second.

Yea, I'd drop the Toyota angle unless you parked the car and had it towed directly to a dealer. You might get a chuckle out of the Judge, but more than likely hell roll his eyes as most do about all the attempts to make this claim, and find you guilty for lack of originality.

Additionally your blind corner may work against you as a reason you should have been going slower, (not exceeding a safe speed) and needed less time to stop.

Here's the document on yellow light times.

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/signt ... /05-01.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Story about cities shortening yellow light times for profit.

http://blog.motorists.org/6-cities-that ... or-profit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another interesting site.

http://www.shortyellowlights.com/rlcinfo/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it may also take a thousand words to explain what the picture really means. Even in those rare instances where a law enforcement officer is overseeing a ticket camera, it is highly unlikely that the officer would recall the supposed violation. For all practical purposes, there is no “accuser” for motorists to confront, which is a constitutional right. There is no one that can personally testify to the circumstances of the alleged violation, and just because a camera unit was operating properly when it was set up does not mean it was operating properly when the picture was taken of any given vehicle.

The shortening of yellow times to increase profits is just infuriating.

Steve Ekstrand wrote:The shortening of yellow times to increase profits is just infuriating.

Not only that, it is in total conflict with the government stated reason for having them in the first place which is to supposedly to increase safety. Another government lie.

Okay, I watched the video and timed it this time. The yellow light is about 3.92 seconds. At 40 MPH I will need 4 seconds to HARD STOP the car. And I still need 1 second to respond to the light. That leaves me with 3 seconds which I can not stop the car. I called the photo place they can not send out copy of the video. I am going to call Santa Ana Police and request them to release the video. For those of you who are interested please let me know I'll forward you the link and info so you can watch the video.

Simon Lu wrote:Okay, I watched the video and timed it this time. The yellow light is about 3.92 seconds. At 40 MPH I will need 4 seconds to HARD STOP the car. And I still need 1 second to respond to the light. That leaves me with 3 seconds which I can not stop the car. I called the photo place they can not send out copy of the video. I am going to call Santa Ana Police and request them to release the video. For those of you who are interested please let me know I'll forward you the link and info so you can watch the video.

Simon, did you go the the link I provided to see if the timing of the light complies?

George Schilling wrote:

Simon Lu wrote:Okay, I watched the video and timed it this time. The yellow light is about 3.92 seconds. At 40 MPH I will need 4 seconds to HARD STOP the car. And I still need 1 second to respond to the light. That leaves me with 3 seconds which I can not stop the car. I called the photo place they can not send out copy of the video. I am going to call Santa Ana Police and request them to release the video. For those of you who are interested please let me know I'll forward you the link and info so you can watch the video.

Simon, did you go the the link I provided to see if the timing of the light complies?

At 40 mph, the minimum timing of the yellow is 3.9 sec. Bend over.

Kurt Rahn wrote:

George Schilling wrote:

Simon Lu wrote:Okay, I watched the video and timed it this time. The yellow light is about 3.92 seconds. At 40 MPH I will need 4 seconds to HARD STOP the car. And I still need 1 second to respond to the light. That leaves me with 3 seconds which I can not stop the car. I called the photo place they can not send out copy of the video. I am going to call Santa Ana Police and request them to release the video. For those of you who are interested please let me know I'll forward you the link and info so you can watch the video.

Simon, did you go the the link I provided to see if the timing of the light complies?

At 40 mph, the minimum timing of the yellow is 3.9 sec. Bend over.

Yes I did read those articles. So basically we are saying Santa Ana police had them set to minimum so they can get more people at this red light. What if I record few other yellow lights in the area and see if they are set to longer intervals?

Simon Lu wrote:
Yes I did read those articles. So basically we are saying Santa Ana police had them set to minimum so they can get more people at this red light. What if I record few other yellow lights in the area and see if they are set to longer intervals?

I would look for another angle to fight it, but you can always have them prove the timing or the light as part of your defense.