Cal Club Autocross Forums

Some quick notes on the run/work groups.
We have gone through this years records and the past NOTLD events to come up with averages to keep run groups about the same for 6 groups. PAXL is in the first run group, PAX open is in the third. All other ladies classes will run with the open classes. And, as it was posted in another thread, there may be a scramble the last minute to re-arrange the groups the night of the event, but I hope not.
This is a unique event, so the standard rotation for run/work groups kinda goes out the window. We can get back to the rotation the next event.
There is no way to accomodate everybody.
To keep those that have known Craig for many, many years involved, there may be some minor changes on the fly the night of the event.
Part and parcel of what we do is to have fun. So if you end up in a group that runs late, kick back and enjoy the company, 'cause there is none better.

Understand that the reason PAX is an issue, is not about "fun" or late nights or whining. Its because you have to treat PAX as though it were a Preps/Mods/Karts class.

Unfortunately, in the history of NOTLD as I know it, that issue has been clouded by personalities and not decided with reason.

What about the guys (not me) that are in Prep/Mod cars that run PAX? They can't run in the 3rd group - they don't have headlights.

They're whiners Bill!!!

I can't speak for the event master but I'm going to anyway. If you don't have headlights, come early and run in the first run group. Other than the obligatory whinning, I'm sure it won't be a problem.

This is not official information just my observations.

The NOLD is one of my favorite events of the year! Kathy does not like it at all.
The event has had problems over the years. The position of the lot lights can blind drivers so care needs to taken when designing the layout. Many drivers find some way to justify changing from stock class to Prep and Mod so they can run early. This practice is not well supported by many of the other drivers. First time drivers can show up with no understanding of what is going on. We have even made it a requirement that you must have driven at least 3 prior events before attending this event. I think we may have restricted the use of all 600 numbers in the past. It would be nice if novices would show up extra early and help set up. That way they could see the layout and get more instruction. One year we had so many spectators that we literally had grid lock in the exit lane at the finish. That was a very fun year and I will never forget the car in the ditch at the gate that needed a tow truck. The NOLD has many details and differences that need attention. Most of the "on the fly changes" to this event cause major problems. We were stuck in grid for over an hour between runs at one event because way too many drivers were moved to the early groups. Most of all it is best if we all play nice and don't try to take advantage of others. We may need to think about combining the last three run groups into two. Perhaps we should start the event even earlier to allow the X runners (class jumpers that don't care about points) to drive in the day and split se we can have more fun. When you jump class you hurt your class by not supporting it and you hurt all the other drivers in all the other classes too.

Thank you for cleaning up the message board so we can focus on each important issue.

If only life were as simple as George would like it to be.

This is a competition. Driving in the daylight is easier than driving at night.

Running out of group at the NOTLD in the interests of easy politics doesn't cut it.

Steve Ekstrand wrote:If only life were as simple as George would like it to be.

This is a competition. Driving in the daylight is easier than driving at night.

Running out of group at the NOTLD in the interests of easy politics doesn't cut it.

And that's why I shouldn't be speaking for the Event Master.

You're right about my keeping life as simple as possible. Bill never seems to have a problem with lights. The candle power he has brougt to events has been amazing. Certainly one could afford to a little bit of wire, a switch, and a pair of off road lights. But at a minimum, those without headlights could invest in, oh I don't know, about 6 - 4 cell mag lights and lots of duct tape.

George Schilling wrote:

Steve Ekstrand wrote: Running out of group at the NOTLD in the interests of easy politics doesn't cut it.

And that's why I shouldn't be speaking for the Event Master.
You're right about my keeping life as simple as possible. Bill never seems to have a problem with lights. The candle power he has brougt to events has been amazing. Certainly one could afford to a little bit of wire, a switch, and a pair of off road lights. But at a minimum, those without headlights could invest in, oh I don't know, about 6 - 4 cell mag lights and lots of duct tape.

Last year the overhead lights were so good I did not need to use my headlights. I was disappointed because I like to use my 4 X 100 watt headlights and NOLD is the only time I get to use them.

pics of light setups have nothing to do with the NOTLD flyer. ....sorry post deleted. }:)

I'd ban additional lighting if I was the event chair.

Its outside the spirit of the event.
I don't think you can call it comfort and convenience as the whole reason is to see the course better. Hello? Maybe protest paper should fly.
It presents a possible hazard with all these high mounted lights attached in the most ghetto ways imaginable.
Its distracting and blinding to everybody they shine on.

I'd ban additional lighting if I was the event chair.

Steve - I had thought about it

Last year the overhead lights were so good I did not need to use my headlights. I was disappointed because I like to use my 4 X 100 watt headlights and NOLD is the only time I get to use them

That's why I didn't.

Its outside the spirit of the event.

potentially, but there will always be a small group that will push the envelope. If it becomes a "hazard" on course, the SSS can always make the decision to ban them at the event.

Another posted "rule" that could confuse the issue in a already different type of event we don't need.

[quote"Doug Teulie"]First time drivers can show up with no understanding of what is going on. We have even made it a requirement that you must have driven at least 3 prior events before attending this event.[/quote]

So are you saying I'm not welcome.
All I've done so far is the test & Tune last weekend.

I'm trying get my car & all its issued taken care of for this, Assuming work wont get in my way.
I completely understand the additude of me needing more experience before this event though.
& will not argue the fact if I'm not welcome.

Cam Correa wrote:[quote"Doug Teulie"]First time drivers can show up with no understanding of what is going on. We have even made it a requirement that you must have driven at least 3 prior events before attending this event.

Cam Correa wrote:So are you saying I'm not welcome.
All I've done so far is the test & Tune last weekend.

I'm trying get my car & all its issued taken care of for this, Assuming work wont get in my way.
I completely understand the additude of me needing more experience before this event though.
& will not argue the fact if I'm not welcome.

If it were up to me I would let you run. It is not up to me!!!!
As it stands you are welcome to run unless you see some rule on the flier that tells you that you can not!
Contact the event chair if you have questions like this.
You should show up early and help set up. Ask folks questions that have done this many times.
That way you will learn more. Driving in the dark is not the hard part it is working in the dark that is challenging.

George Schilling wrote:[Bill never seems to have a problem with lights. The candle power he has brougt to events has been amazing.

Well, like your politics Gerogie, you're off on this too.

The driving lights I use are two 50w bulbs - one per driving light - the same as headlights; in addition, I ran with no headlights last year.

Also, if I do well Georgie, it's in spite of myself - I do not see well in the dark; 'though it seems YOU have done some of your best work in those conditions, or so you claim!
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The problem with NOT running PAX in the 1st group is that you are opening a can of worms. Please, Tom, don't make decisions based on personality or perceivied "divaness", if that's what this is about. ;)
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Why not make this simple: No one runs in a group that they don't normally run (easily verified from previous results) - this way, you won't get some yahoo in a stock car running in Prep/Mod.
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Also, I'd recommend that you DO limit participation to people that have a few events under their belt; there is an extra element of danger, mostly to workers, in a race w/limited visibility; it was done before, it was a good idea then, it's a good idea now.

And just so Jason doesn't confuse this w/fact, all said in my NOT so humble opinion.

Bill

Bill Schenker wrote:What about the guys (not me) that are in Prep/Mod cars that run PAX? They can't run in the 3rd group - they don't have headlights.

Is Huffman coming? Does Toby still have working lights? Is that the only two real concerns here?

Jay W

Huffman? Don't know. Toby? No, no working lights. And what about Kiesel?

It only takes one prep or mod car in pax.

Its a competition. I know that really bothers some people.

Why not make this simple: No one runs in a group that they don't normally run (easily verified from previous results) - this way, you won't get some yahoo in a stock car running in Prep/Mod.

It kinda seems dumb to run in a group you usually don't run in just because it's too late to run in their usual group. Do people really do that? Wouldn't it be better to just skip NOTLD? Wouldn't you get your ass kicked? What good is that for the year's points?

Okay I'll solve this problem.

First car out at Midnight, PAX, Karts and Prep/Mods run last when the sun comes up. Best temps as the track as all night to cool down and also cooler air.

Kurt Rahn wrote:

Why not make this simple: No one runs in a group that they don't normally run (easily verified from previous results) - this way, you won't get some yahoo in a stock car running in Prep/Mod.

It kinda seems dumb to run in a group you usually don't run in just because it's too late to run in their usual group. Do people really do that? Wouldn't it be better to just skip NOTLD? Wouldn't you get your ass kicked? What good is that for the year's points?

Yes they do and have in the past. Some people just want to run and they don't care about points.

Kurt Rahn wrote:

Why not make this simple: No one runs in a group that they don't normally run (easily verified from previous results) - this way, you won't get some yahoo in a stock car running in Prep/Mod.

It kinda seems dumb to run in a group you usually don't run in just because it's too late to run in their usual group. Do people really do that? Wouldn't it be better to just skip NOTLD? Wouldn't you get your ass kicked? What good is that for the year's points?

do crappy and it's one of your drops...do good when everyone else does crappy and

Chuck Fowler wrote:do crappy and it's one of your drops...do good when everyone else does crappy and

But what're the chances you're going to do well enough against much stiffer competition, even if they drive like crap? Assuming people are already running in the class they're most competitive in, wouldn't changing be bad? For instance, If I decided to run in CSM just because it would get me home in time to get tucked in, Schenker would kick my ass even if he was dead drunk. I have enough problems in SK2. Just seems like if you're worried about getting home by bedtime, you probably ought to skip NOTLD.

Kurt Rahn wrote:...Just seems like if you're worried about getting home by bedtime, you probably ought to skip NOTLD.

You'd think!

Just an FYI... I saw Huffman yesterday, and he told me that he is going to the NOLD. btw the flyer shows PAX working and running 1st, and then running again in 3rd. Even though this thread says when each will run, you would be smart to fix the flyer for those people who don't waste hours on forums (even if there is only a few of them).