Cal Club Autocross Forums

This is for the people that have data from the Pro Finale and Nationals... Did Lincoln have more grip than El Toro, Cal speedway on a good day? Just curious.

Butt dyno says maybe a smidge more than El Toro and certainly less than Fontucky, butt you have one of those butt dynos too.

our car is some what of a special case, but lincoln is just a hair grippier than el toro. for reference we typically pull steady state lateral numbers of about 1.15g at calspeedway, 1.2g at el toro and about 1.22g (which is about as small of a margin as i can measure) at lincoln. In terms of car setup i'd call lincoln the same as el toro, our alignment settings worked exactly the same in both places and the balance was very similar....at least until the opr showed up.

However, Marshall, you drove in the same heats (3rd - Thurs/Fri.) as us.......various states of wetness and coolish. If we had sunshine, dry conditions and heat I'm sure the grip would have been greater. The pace was off by a few seconds for ASP/BSP due to the weather.

Reijo

Reijo Silvennoinen wrote:However, Marshall, you drove in the same heats (3rd - Thurs/Fri.) as us.......various states of wetness and coolish. If we had sunshine, dry conditions and heat I'm sure the grip would have been greater. The pace was off by a few seconds for ASP/BSP due to the weather.

Reijo

Marshall and Dad drove heat 3, but I drove the 1st heat on Thurs and Friday. I suspect he was looking at the data from my runs. We also have the data we took last year.

Our Data shows Lincoln is almost a mirror of El Toro. Sustained and Peak are almost exactly the same. The setup is the same for both.

That said, the grip over on the practice course is poor and requires a different setup. I'd suggest using it just to make sure your car isn't broken.

Christine Berry wrote:

Reijo Silvennoinen wrote:However, Marshall, you drove in the same heats (3rd - Thurs/Fri.) as us.......various states of wetness and coolish. If we had sunshine, dry conditions and heat I'm sure the grip would have been greater. The pace was off by a few seconds for ASP/BSP due to the weather.

Reijo

Marshall and Dad drove heat 3, but I drove the 1st heat on Thurs and Friday. I suspect he was looking at the data from my runs. We also have the data we took last year.

even better, i'm referencing data gathered from the pro finale...when the conditions were good.

Marshall Grice wrote:

Christine Berry wrote:

Reijo Silvennoinen wrote:However, Marshall, you drove in the same heats (3rd - Thurs/Fri.) as us.......various states of wetness and coolish. If we had sunshine, dry conditions and heat I'm sure the grip would have been greater. The pace was off by a few seconds for ASP/BSP due to the weather.

Reijo

Marshall and Dad drove heat 3, but I drove the 1st heat on Thurs and Friday. I suspect he was looking at the data from my runs. We also have the data we took last year.

even better, i'm referencing data gathered from the pro finale...when the conditions were good.

If you don't mind sharing, how was the pro finale compared to the Thurs/Fri - 1st heat? Also how about Thursday compared to Friday 1st heat?

My butt data logger felt that Friday - 1st heat was worse then Thursday - 1st heat and Thursday - 1st heat was worse than Sunday AM Pro Finale, barely though.

In general I felt like the grip was worse then El Toro, mainly with how the car set after initial turn in going into steady state.

Jeff Wong wrote:
If you don't mind sharing, how was the pro finale compared to the Thurs/Fri - 1st heat? Also how about Thursday compared to Friday 1st heat?

My butt data logger felt that Friday - 1st heat was worse then Thursday - 1st heat and Thursday - 1st heat was worse than Sunday AM Pro Finale, barely though.

In general I felt like the grip was worse then El Toro, mainly with how the car set after initial turn in going into steady state.

the data doesn't show any difference for christine's runs. we ran in the wet so i don't have any reference for how it felt.

we didn't notice any change in grip, but it rained a group ahead of us on thursday so all the rubber was gone though we had a very dry line and it was wet when we ran on friday.

At the ProFinale, I felt lower grip in the afternoon heat Saturday compared to Saturday and Sunday morning. It was pretty mild temps. I was using that Sat PM heat to heat cycle fresh tires for Thurs/Fri so I dismissed it as virgin tires. But, then talking to others and looking at times and the that heat seemed slow. Forward bite was particularly poor.

Steve Ekstrand wrote:At the ProFinale, I felt lower grip in the afternoon heat Saturday compared to Saturday and Sunday morning. It was pretty mild temps. I was using that Sat PM heat to heat cycle fresh tires for Thurs/Fri so I dismissed it as virgin tires. But, then talking to others and looking at times and the that heat seemed slow. Forward bite was particularly poor.

Did you guys have data from the DL1?

Jeff Wong wrote:
Did you guys have data from the DL1?

Yup. Its says I sucked.

Steve Ekstrand wrote:

Jeff Wong wrote:
Did you guys have data from the DL1?

Yup. Its says I sucked.

Blah, give me more!

How did the two surfaces compare on your DL1? It would be interesting to see how street tires are affected.

Jeff Wong wrote: Blah, give me more!

How did the two surfaces compare on your DL1? It would be interesting to see how street tires are affected.

Virtually identical.

No data (too lazy to plug the traqmate for nationals and the camcorder the last two years), just butt dyno.

For me Lincoln and El Toro feel identical. Whatever works at El Toro works at Lincoln.

Last year I made the mistake to run the practice course at Lincoln for several laps (over 50 laps at the practice course and 5 drivers), we ended up with two radically different setups (one for SSM and one for ASP), and neither one felt as good as the weeks before at El Toro.

This year I made an alignment to the Cayman in June, drove for over 3,000 miles including the 1,600 road trip from Los Angeles to Houston, plus towing the Cayman from Houston to Nebraska right after pickup from Porsche dealer in North Houston where the car got a new clutch and new brakes (dealer disassembled rear suspension to remove engine/trans as there was a noise from the power steering pump, my power steering is now dead for a 2nd time).

I ran the Pro on RE-11 on Sat morning, old A6 on Sat afternoon, new A6 on Sun morning. Grip with the three sets of tires was phenomenal, as good as El Toro.

Tuesday at Nationals, grip was fine, as good as El Toro. Wednesday at Nationals grip was horrible, worse than Fontana. I came from lap one complaining to my co-driver, he said he had grip. Thanks to Toby, we were able to find the answer for the lack of grip on day 2, I dropped 1.2 secs from my laps just by doing partial tire cleaning (Thanks a million Toby I owe you!!!!).

We should run Nationals at El Toro !!! Best AutoX pad in U.S.

p.s. Congratulation Jeff on the ST National Championship, by over 1 second, big win !!!

So all these El Toro = Lincoln testaments should mean we can pretty much charge anything we want for entry into the 2011 pre-nationals practice/championship. }:)

Rick Brown wrote:So all these El Toro = Lincoln testaments should mean we can pretty much charge anything we want for entry into the 2011 pre-nationals practice/championship. }:)

Or we make a two day practice and advertise to NorPac and the rest of SoPac how close the grip is between the two surfaces, and charge those out-of-towners a mint and all go out for steak!

I would state it differently... Whatever doesn't work at El Toro, doesn't work at Lincoln. ;)

Bill Schenker wrote:and all go out for steak!

Bill?

Randy Chase wrote:

Bill Schenker wrote:and all go out for steak!

Bill?

I'm sure he meant "stake". Yummy!

Will Kalman wrote:

Randy Chase wrote:

Bill Schenker wrote:and all go out for steak!

Bill?

I'm sure he meant "stake". Yummy!

Boca Steak®

Rick Brown wrote: Boca Steak®

Mmmmm, where do I get that?

(You're welcome, in advance, to all those that will have fun with that...)

Randy Chase wrote:

Bill Schenker wrote:and all go out for steak!

Bill?

Said with the same intent as over-charging our out-of-town guests...