Cal Club Autocross Forums

Id really like to see what my jeep can do at an autocross event just wondering if it's even allowed to race as I know there are rules on SUV's. i also dont know what class I would be in as it does have a supercharger on it to. Any help would be great I just wont to go out and get a feel some of the limits on my jeep i have run numerous autocross events a few years ago in other vehicles.

Flat safety rule against SUVs. Sorry man.

Look for a RallyX. We should have one up in late Feb at Glen Helen.

Jay W

Jayson Woodruff wrote:Flat safety rule against SUVs. Sorry man.

Look for a RallyX. We should have one up in late Feb at Glen Helen.

Jay W

Wow that sucks what about the dodge truck pictures on the home page how is he able to run?

Donny Means wrote:

Jayson Woodruff wrote:Flat safety rule against SUVs. Sorry man.

Look for a RallyX. We should have one up in late Feb at Glen Helen.

Jay W

Wow that sucks what about the dodge truck pictures on the home page how is he able to run?

How ironic you mention that picture....as the person who replied to you (Jayson Woodruff) was the owner of that truck. At the time it was classed as an FSP "car" (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong Jay) and that truck was way LOWERED, with R-Comp tires.

How come all those Toyota Trucks are also allowed?

I had a friend who raced in a tuck class at Irwindale. It might be interesting to try running a Ford Lightning?

Trucks are ok, as long as they pass Safety.

SUVs on the other hand, are all banned, except the Subaru Forester.

Max Hayter wrote:2wd Trucks are ok, as long as they pass Safety.

SUVs on the other hand, are all banned, except the Subaru Forester.

Fixed. Also there are specific exceptions, GMC Syclone is awd and classed, like the subi. In the case of the SRT8 a number of letters were sent in asking for it to be classed, and was shut down due to its high CG. Search the old issues of Fastrack and you will find it.

Jason Isley BS RX8 wrote:

Max Hayter wrote:2wd Trucks are ok, as long as they pass Safety.

SUVs on the other hand, are all banned, except the Subaru Forester.

Fixed. Also there are specific exceptions, GMC Syclone is awd and classed, like the subi. In the case of the SRT8 a number of letters were sent in asking for it to be classed, and was shut down due to its high CG. Search the old issues of Fastrack and you will find it.

Ok well I guess rules are rules I'll tell you one thing though i have a gen 2 lightning and the jeep handles way better than the lightning. But i understand the high CG is the reason for the rule. They autocross them in the SRT track experience guess i'll have to go to one of those.

Donny Means wrote:
Ok well I guess rules are rules I'll tell you one thing though i have a gen 2 lightning and the jeep handles way better than the lightning. But i understand the high CG is the reason for the rule. They autocross them in the SRT track experience guess i'll have to go to one of those.

Yeah, like its on rails. ;) What could go wrong if someone put sticky tires on it. :unimpressed:

Being a former mopar racer I got a cool opp to ride with an SRT8 engineer in one being flogged. I'd say the vehicle has experienced the, uhm, full range of dynamic handling situations in testing. Pretty funny. The test car had a big red kill button on the center console. In case something electronic went wrong. Or if the passenger wanted to stop maybe?

Trucks aren't specifically banned, though, if too tall they can on a case by case basis by judged unsafe and not allowed to run. SUV's can't run in unless specifically classed. Question there though. Isn't that for running in stock class? What if I lowered the SRT8 and ran it on street tires in STU? I think that is okay.

The V8 Dakota's Jayson and I ran were in FS then ESP. A V6 would have gone to FSP.

BTW-The GC raises the inside rear. On my Dakota I raised the inside front.

Even in a Subi, that is in a stock class officially, it only drives OK in stock trim.



But in ESP trim, the fun can begin....

The Toyota X-Runner is not allowed in stock class at regular solo events, Pro Solo where it is specifically classed only.

Ford Lightnings have run with us. They tend to eat transmissions faster that WRX's when you overboost them and take them to autocrosses.

I road along in an GC SRT8 with Sam Moses, who's a club racer, on the big track at Willow Springs. The truck is quite stable for what it is. One reason it handles better than the Lightning is that it doesn't have buggy springs in the back. Stiff unit body + lowering + IRS.

Bob Beamesderfer wrote:I road along in an GC SRT8 with Sam Moses, who's a club racer, on the big track at Willow Springs. The truck is quite stable for what it is. One reason it handles better than the Lightning is that it doesn't have buggy springs in the back. Stiff unit body + lowering + IRS.

Exactly my thoughts, I live 4 miles from willow springs and plan to take mine out there soon the vortech blower should be fun on the straights to.

The GC SRT8 will do great on the track. The only thing I'd be worried about is off track excursions. Really make an effort to go off straight if you're in trouble.

I don't know where the SUV rule is in the book, but I trust you guys on that. But some are saying it only applies to stock class? Then he can run CST or something, right? As-is. Yeah, it's an end-around, but like he said, "rules are rules".

Bill Martin wrote:I don't know where the SUV rule is in the book, but I trust you guys on that. But some are saying it only applies to stock class? Then he can run CST or something, right? As-is. Yeah, it's an end-around, but like he said, "rules are rules".

Who is saying this only applies to stock? Must be someone who has not read the rules. Now if you could only see the rules online, and search for stuff like this. Oh yeah, you can...

See section 3.1, nothing to do with stock class.

Unstable vehicles with a high center of gravity and a narrow track, including
SUV’s, minivans, and 4WD pickups, must be excluded. (See
“Guidelines from the SSC” at the end of Appendix E.) Examples of such
vehicles are listed in Appendix A. Extra caution should be exercised
with non-traditional vehicles, e.g. trucks using racing slicks.

Well that would be Mr Steve a few posts up. But he didn't state it as a fact-certain. Nor did I.

But thanks to your citation of Appendix E. I took a look. Pg 253 begins a discussion of rollover potential of cars "with higher roll centers". I guess all this time I've misunderstood the relationship of "higher roll centers" to rollover potential.

That aside, there is actually a written criteria of "acceptable range" of the height/track ratio, charted on pg 254. But there's a lot of stuff there and it would take a while to digest it and still longer to get a consensus. One thing though...it appears SUVs may not in fact be banned outright, but are of a category that might meet the criteria: "Unstable vehicles with a high center of gravity and a narrow track, including
SUV’s, minivans, and 4WD pickups". No doubt it could be argued either way.

But Jeez Jason, do you really have to approach things with such a nasty tone? Civility isn't that out of fashion.

-- Bill

ps...looking further, your reference pointed to a list of unsuitable vehicles in Appendix A. Yes indeed, pg 158. Grand Cherokee is not on the list. And interestingly, one vehicle that is, Dodge Caliber, also includes the words "(non-SRT)" Seems pretty obvious then that the SRT Dodge Caliber is specifically excluded from the exclusion list. Coincidentally we're talking here about another SRT. I think you have to do more than read the rules...you have to also understand them. And when not specific, you then need to interpret them. Not as black or white as some of you are convinced. Just my opinion. Hopefully RESPECTFULLY submitted.

Does anybody ever do the math? I mean ever? This is the second time Appendix E has been shoved in our faces on this forum... But it makes no sense to me, please explain how this is supposed to work.

The chart shows 1.00 being the dividing line, yet the text says less than 1.30 should never be permitted to run. So which do you follow? The chart or the text? If you follow the chart I don't see how ANY pick up or crossover would ever be allowed, including the Tacoma that ran all those national events. Same said for nearly every stock height econo hatchback. A Toyota Yaris? No chance.

1.30? Seriously. Height to average track relationship? How do you calculate this? An RX8 is 52.8" in height with an avg track of 59.1". 59.1/52.8=1.12
C6 Z06? 1.29

Is this for formula cars? New math? Is my calculator broken? I didn't get a response when this first appeared in the book a couple of years ago. Can somebody tell me what I'm doing wrong reading this PLEASE!!!

And while Steve hits you with the math, I'll add in Logic 101:

SUV's cannot be banned outright because the Forrester and Typhoon are specifically listed. I didn't see the words "unless specifically listed" in Jayson's post. 4wd trucks cannot be banned outright because the Syclone is specifically listed.

Unavoidable conclusion: Some SUV's & 4WD trucks are banned if listed as such in Appendix A. Some are eligible if listed for competition. All others fit into a more nebulous category in between. Their exact fate is open for debate. Perhaps each vehicle on a case by case basis: Is it more like an Appendix A exclusion vehicle, or more like an Appendix A eligible vehicle? I think the GC SRT has a good chance. The factory built it for road performance, not "Jeep Jamboreeing". The rule book seems to make a similar distinction in the case of the Dodge Caliber vs the Dodge Caliber SRT.

Bill Martin wrote:Well that would be Mr Steve a few posts up. But he didn't state it as a fact-certain. Nor did I.

But thanks to your citation of Appendix E. I took a look. Pg 253 begins a discussion of rollover potential of cars "with higher roll centers". I guess all this time I've misunderstood the relationship of "higher roll centers" to rollover potential.

That aside, there is actually a written criteria of "acceptable range" of the height/track ratio, charted on pg 254. But there's a lot of stuff there and it would take a while to digest it and still longer to get a consensus. One thing though...it appears SUVs may not in fact be banned outright, but are of a category that might meet the criteria: "Unstable vehicles with a high center of gravity and a narrow track, including
SUV’s, minivans, and 4WD pickups". No doubt it could be argued either way.

But Jeez Jason, do you really have to approach things with such a nasty tone? Civility isn't that out of fashion.

-- Bill

ps...looking further, your reference pointed to a list of unsuitable vehicles in Appendix A. Yes indeed, pg 158. Grand Cherokee is not on the list. And interestingly, one vehicle that is, Dodge Caliber, also includes the words "(non-SRT)" Seems pretty obvious then that the SRT Dodge Caliber is specifically excluded from the exclusion list. Coincidentally we're talking here about another SRT. I think you have to do more than read the rules...you have to also understand them. And when not specific, you then need to interpret them. Not as black or white as some of you are convinced. Just my opinion. Hopefully RESPECTFULLY submitted.

Are you really this dense? Here it is again:

Unstable vehicles with a high center of gravity and a narrow track, including
SUV’s, minivans, and 4WD pickups, must be excluded. (See
“Guidelines from the SSC” at the end of Appendix E.) Examples of such
vehicles are listed in Appendix A. Extra caution should be exercised
with non-traditional vehicles, e.g. trucks using racing slicks.

People like you are the reason the rule book has to get bigger each year.

Jason Isley BS RX8 wrote:

Bill Martin wrote:Well that would be Mr Steve a few posts up. But he didn't state it as a fact-certain. Nor did I.

But thanks to your citation of Appendix E. I took a look. Pg 253 begins a discussion of rollover potential of cars "with higher roll centers". I guess all this time I've misunderstood the relationship of "higher roll centers" to rollover potential.

That aside, there is actually a written criteria of "acceptable range" of the height/track ratio, charted on pg 254. But there's a lot of stuff there and it would take a while to digest it and still longer to get a consensus. One thing though...it appears SUVs may not in fact be banned outright, but are of a category that might meet the criteria: "Unstable vehicles with a high center of gravity and a narrow track, including
SUV’s, minivans, and 4WD pickups". No doubt it could be argued either way.

But Jeez Jason, do you really have to approach things with such a nasty tone? Civility isn't that out of fashion.

-- Bill

ps...looking further, your reference pointed to a list of unsuitable vehicles in Appendix A. Yes indeed, pg 158. Grand Cherokee is not on the list. And interestingly, one vehicle that is, Dodge Caliber, also includes the words "(non-SRT)" Seems pretty obvious then that the SRT Dodge Caliber is specifically excluded from the exclusion list. Coincidentally we're talking here about another SRT. I think you have to do more than read the rules...you have to also understand them. And when not specific, you then need to interpret them. Not as black or white as some of you are convinced. Just my opinion. Hopefully RESPECTFULLY submitted.

Are you really this dense? Here it is again:

Unstable vehicles with a high center of gravity and a narrow track, including
SUV’s, minivans, and 4WD pickups, must be excluded. (See
“Guidelines from the SSC” at the end of Appendix E.) Examples of such
vehicles are listed in Appendix A. Extra caution should be exercised
with non-traditional vehicles, e.g. trucks using racing slicks.

People like you are the reason the rule book has to get bigger each year.

OK, Jason - define "narrow" and "high" for us. What if there are SUV's, minivans, and 4WD pickups that do not have "narrow" tracks or "high" CGs? You know like the 4WD, SUV Syclone/Typhoon?

It's as confusing and unclear as Bill states. Your ability to fully comprehend one side of a portion of the issue does not make Bill dense. Nor you smart. I also request a bit of civility.

Will Kalman wrote:OK, Jason - define "narrow" and "high" for us. What if there are SUV's, minivans, and 4WD pickups that do not have "narrow" tracks or "high" CGs? You know like the 4WD, SUV Syclone/Typhoon?

It's as confusing and unclear as Bill states. Your ability to fully comprehend one side of a portion of the issue does not make Bill dense. Nor you smart. I also request a bit of civility.

It is defined for you in the book. If you have an SUV, minivan, 4wd truck don't expect to autox it with SCCA, seems very clear. If you can not comprehend the massive list of cars that are classed and allowed to run - which would double in size if they tried to list all of the vehicles not allowed - then you can always refer to the SSF chart.

Or you can try to play dumb like a few others in this thread and twist the rules to suit your needs. LIke the people before, that have shown up and got away with running an excluded vehicle, you will likely get lucky and not do anything to screw up the event for the rest of us. But it only takes one time.