Cal Club Autocross Forums

While my interior is getting a remodel, I might put the Braille battery inside the car. Probably where the passenger seat was. Can I just mount it to the floor? Do I need it in a inclose box? Here's the link to the battery.
http://www.braillebattery.com/index.php ... ies/b3121/#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks,

Steve A.

We put Henry's battery in the back of his Z06 ... took something like two days of pretty hard work. We were all finished and tightening up the last screw ... on the Starter (ground?) ... and broke it off. We used a kit that provided everything ... it was a bear.

I think the rules say you need a box, but there may be an exception for AGMs (since there's no acid floating around). I'd still put it in a box and run a vent outside regardless of what the rules ask for. Lead acids will still vent flamable, lung melting gas if something goes terribly wrong.

Jay W

Steve Abbott wrote:While my interior is getting a remodel, I might put the Braille battery inside the car. Probably where the passenger seat was. Can I just mount it to the floor? Do I need it in a inclose box? Here's the link to the battery.
http://www.braillebattery.com/index.php ... ies/b3121/#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks,

Steve A.

Once it comes out of the original location, I think the tech rules will vary (maybe a lot) with the sanctioning body, as I know you run with some other clubs you may need to check them all.

Here are the 2 I believe apply. The first one is Safety Inspection and the second Street Touring which I believe SP inherits.

3.3.3.B.17) Any wet-cell battery moved from the manufacturer’s original location
shall be in a non-conductive, marine-type container or equivalent
and the “hot” terminal shall be insulated. All batteries (on-board
power supplies) shall be attached securely to the frame or chassis
structure independent of the marine-type container. NOTE: This will
allow the use of gel cell or dry cell (AGM) batteries without a nonconductive,
marine-type container where applicable.

14.9 ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
A. The make, model number, and size of the battery may be changed
but not its voltage. Relocation of the battery or batteries is permitted
but not into the passenger compartment. If the battery is relocated
and the original battery tray can be removed by simply unbolting it,
the tray may be removed, or relocated with the battery. Holes may
be drilled for mounting or passage of cables. Longer cables may be
substituted to permit relocation. The number of battery or batteries
may not be changed from stock. The area behind the rearmost seat
is not considered to be within the passenger compartment. The area
under the rearmost seat is considered to be within the passenger
compartment.

Steve Abbott wrote:While my interior is getting a remodel, I might put the Braille battery inside the car. Probably where the passenger seat was. Can I just mount it to the floor? Do I need it in a inclose box? Here's the link to the battery.
http://www.braillebattery.com/index.php ... ies/b3121/#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks,

Steve A.

well if you're yanking the interior you can put it where ever you want (you're way outside of the street prepared rules at that point), but if you're gonna do all the work to relocate it why wouldn't you want to put it in the trunk?

Michael Smith wrote:Here are the 2 I believe apply. The first one is Safety Inspection and the second Street Touring which I believe SP inherits.

Street Prepared does not inherit any rules from Street Touring -- it only inherits from Stock. One reason for that is that the Street Prepared rules were fully developed before the Street Touring rules were written.

However, 15.9 B&C (street prepared) are worded identically to 14.9 A.

Marshall Grice wrote:

Steve Abbott wrote:While my interior is getting a remodel, I might put the Braille battery inside the car. Probably where the passenger seat was. Can I just mount it to the floor? Do I need it in a inclose box? Here's the link to the battery.
http://www.braillebattery.com/index.php ... ies/b3121/#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks,

Steve A.

well if you're yanking the interior you can put it where ever you want (you're way outside of the street prepared rules at that point), but if you're gonna do all the work to relocate it why wouldn't you want to put it in the trunk?

As you know, the trunk is not closed off to the passenger compartment. So whether It goes in the very back or next to me, I need to know if I need a box. It looks like I might have to. I was thinking about what you said yesterday and it seemed to me with the battery way in the back it would give it a chance to sling the back end around. Like a Porsche. If the battery was on the passenger side near the rear tires it would still add weight to the back, but not let it sling the rear end around. Hope you understand this poor explanation. I also was thinking, I could just drill a hole in the firewall and run the positive cable though it to the battery sitting on the floor. That would be much easier then doing all that other work. Bad idea?

Thanks,
Steve

Steve Abbott wrote:I need to know if I need a box. It looks like I might have to.

The Braille Battery should be a dry (AGM) cell (from their web page "Using our Advanced AGM racing technology" - I'm assuming they are saying AGM as in dry cell, especially w/ their "no spill, no maintenance" spiel). You don't need a box. You may want a box, but you don't need one. Whether you can put it in the passenger seat area or not just depends on the class you run - what class do you run now anyway?

Don's car is GP & the battery sits in the passenger seat (it's only in a box because it's a wet cell battery); Mike Nakata's XP car has the battery in a box where the rear seat was.

Marshall Grice wrote:

Steve Abbott wrote:While my interior is getting a remodel, I might put the Braille battery inside the car. Probably where the passenger seat was. Can I just mount it to the floor? Do I need it in a inclose box? Here's the link to the battery.
http://www.braillebattery.com/index.php ... ies/b3121/#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks,

Steve A.

well if you're yanking the interior you can put it where ever you want (you're way outside of the street prepared rules at that point), but if you're gonna do all the work to relocate it why wouldn't you want to put it in the trunk?

Lower mounting point vs trunk, shorter and lighter positive cable and weight of battery closer to cog.

Jayson Woodruff wrote: I'd still put it in a box and run a vent outside regardless of what the rules ask for. Lead acids will still vent flamable, lung melting gas if something goes terribly wrong.

Again for emphasis. Not such a worry in a wide open convertable.

Want to get really trick. Use Aluminum cable, at least 33% lighter in 'specific weight'.

Jay W

Steve Abbott wrote:
As you know, the trunk is not closed off to the passenger compartment. So whether It goes in the very back or next to me, I need to know if I need a box. It looks like I might have to. I was thinking about what you said yesterday and it seemed to me with the battery way in the back it would give it a chance to sling the back end around. Like a Porsche. If the battery was on the passenger side near the rear tires it would still add weight to the back, but not let it sling the rear end around. Hope you understand this poor explanation. I also was thinking, I could just drill a hole in the firewall and run the positive cable though it to the battery sitting on the floor. That would be much easier then doing all that other work. Bad idea?

Thanks,
Steve

I know what you're saying but porsche's swing around mostly due to the 60%+ rear weight bias. They have a high polar moment of inertia because they have a WHOLE engine hanging off the back....not just a battery.

If you don't get the battery behind the rear axle it will still be "adding" weight to the front axle. you would get more bang for your buck if it were in the trunk.

and you don't need a box unless you need one for your track day stuff.

Toby Larsson wrote:
Lower mounting point vs trunk, shorter and lighter positive cable and weight of battery closer to cog.

a) who says you have to mount it "on top" of the trunk?
b)lighter battery cable connected to a full weight battery?
c)in this case, having less than 50% of the weight on the drive axle, fixing the weight distribution (primary factor) trumps moment of inertia (secondary factor).

Marshall Grice wrote:

Toby Larsson wrote:
Lower mounting point vs trunk, shorter and lighter positive cable and weight of battery closer to cog.

a) who says you have to mount it "on top" of the trunk?
b)lighter battery cable connected to a full weight battery?
c)in this case, having less than 50% of the weight on the drive axle, fixing the weight distribution (primary factor) trumps moment of inertia (secondary factor).

Oh Boy!! I sence a hight level tech battle brewing!

But back to the original question:
1. No, it's an agm battery and does not require the box.
2. Where it can sit depends on what class you're setting the car up for. (pass seat removed?)

Whether you put it at the cg location, over the rear axle, or as far back as possible serves one goal and hurts another. There's probably no one right answer that fits all cars. Most common opinion I've heard is just fwd of the rear axle and as low as possible. YMMV

Thanks to all you guys helping me. Looks like I don't need a box. If and when I do this, I'll probably put it on the floor on the passenger side. Both Marshall and Toby have different ideas and I like them both. But for me, it's much easier to put it on the floor next to me. If the project to hard, I end up not doing it at all. For you guys asking what class I run. I co-drive Tom D. car in SS. My car is just for goofing around.

See you guys in Jan.

Steve A.

Battery trailer.

I wouldn't worry about lightweight cables if he's using a 21lbs battery. The equivalent Li-on batt is what? About 5lbs? My battery is 6.6lbs, but it won't turn over a high compression V8 for very long.

BTW I mounted my battery elevated above the trunk in the far back corner against the top of the fender. As far back from the rear axle and as high as I could legally mount it.... Of course, this is in my drag car. ;)

Also in my REALLY high compression drag car, I have an MSD retard box that I switch on when starting to aid in firing a high compression motor, it helps me not need the same CCA as my Cummins.

Marshall Grice wrote:

Toby Larsson wrote:
Lower mounting point vs trunk, shorter and lighter positive cable and weight of battery closer to cog.

a) who says you have to mount it "on top" of the trunk?
b)lighter battery cable connected to a full weight battery?
c)in this case, having less than 50% of the weight on the drive axle, fixing the weight distribution (primary factor) trumps moment of inertia (secondary factor).

a) Did mount the battery under the car for awhile, it's very inconvenient and to exposed if you have an "off" or get cones up under the car. It's also a problem when tech workers are looking for your battery.

b) My old lightweight battery weighed a lot less than the OEM positive cable that was connected to it. My full size battery I use now also doubles as ballast, it will be replaced again when the cage goes in since I'll be above min weight again.

c) I have run my car with 50-70lbs of ballast in three different locations, trunk was one of them, where it's at now is the best location for my car. If my car wasn't severly underpowered maybe the trunk for better traction might be better.

Steve Ekstrand wrote:Also in my REALLY high compression drag car, I have an MSD retard box that I switch on when starting to aid in firing a high compression motor, it helps me not need the same CCA as my Cummins.

And when was the last time you started it? }:)

You should trailer it to the banquet so people can see it.

Meh, throw a 3 pound Lithium Ion in the stock location and be done with it. ;)

IMHO, moving a heavy OEM battery around in the car is basically a waste of time. The weight distribution advantage is generally offset by the additional weight of the longer cables, cable ties, clamps, box, tie down, and vent. It tried it on my old road racing 240Z (2,150 lbs total car weight) and I got a better result by switching to a lighter battery in the stock location. I've also tried it on a couple customer cars and the returns are never there, especially with a car over 3,000 lbs.

Also, moving the battery outside of the wheel base of the car (like in the trunk) increases the vehicle's yaw inertia which is generally a bad thing in autocross. It can sometimes be a good thing in road racing.