Cal Club Autocross Forums

I'm posting this for a good friend - who was actually the person that first introduced me to auto-x a few years ago. Anyway Dave bought a BMW M3 E46 about a year ago and he is been having some problems. Please let me know if you have any advice for him.


details are
2004 M3, with SMG
about 81k miles. bought last May at about 78k miles.
previous owner seemed to keep it maintained at BMW SLO.
After normal sunday of tooling around and doing errands, sudden knocking noise that sounded similar to oil starve on non M hydraulic lifter motor.
changes with RPM.
removed belts to check for pully bearing. noise still there.
checked around with stethoscope on top end. noise loudest at #6 throttle body.
performed valve adjust. found a couple that needed slight tightening up. nothing major.
visual of cams does not show any that are shiney all the way around. springs seem all fine.
noise still there.
did compression test 175-180 on all 6.
did leakdown on #5 and #6. number was less than 10% IIRC
did borescope on #5 and #6 nothing evident.
Took it to Steve Thomas. Tech says after stethoscope and load test its bearing. Foreman thinks piston.
ST recommends long block from BMW ($17,900 before tax).

Put a real engine in your M3--better yet put a couple in!!!! }:)

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/ite ... ate-Engine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don

Ouch - that sucks.

Do a search for "M3 E46 bearing failure" and you'll have an entertaining evening of reading....

Do these motors have the same oil pump bolt falling out problems the e36's do? The description certainly sounds like bearing damage from oil starve. Only one way to know for sure, and that is to pull the rod bearing caps off and inspect.

Under no circumstance would I pay for a new long block from the dealer!

Will Kalman wrote:Do a search for "M3 E46 bearing failure" and you'll have an entertaining evening of reading....

Well I was aware that the 2001-03 cars have to go through a recall but Dave's car is a 2004.
On the other hand though after a quick research it seems that he is not the only one... }:)
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ?t=1547090" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Christos Adam wrote:

Will Kalman wrote:Do a search for "M3 E46 bearing failure" and you'll have an entertaining evening of reading....

Well I was aware that the 2001-03 cars have to go through a recall but Dave's car is a 2004.
On the other hand though after a quick research it seems that he is not the only one... }:)
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ?t=1547090" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think a lot of late model BMW's are going to be biting 2nd owners due to the 15000 mile OC interval recommended by mfg. Throw in "lifetime" automatic transmission fluid & you are holding a grenade with a pulled pin. Don't let go.

Bob Pl wrote:

Christos Adam wrote:

Will Kalman wrote:Do a search for "M3 E46 bearing failure" and you'll have an entertaining evening of reading....

Well I was aware that the 2001-03 cars have to go through a recall but Dave's car is a 2004.
On the other hand though after a quick research it seems that he is not the only one... }:)
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ?t=1547090" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think a lot of late model BMW's are going to be biting 2nd owners due to the 15000 mile OC interval recommended by mfg. Throw in "lifetime" automatic transmission fluid & you are holding a grenade with a pulled pin. Don't let go.

Wow... you are "Mr Good News" Bob!... his first mistake was buying one with the SMG trans.!!
I can get you a used motor if all else fails.

I would venture most buyers of new BMW's follow the skimpy "free" service schedule, which has gone from bad to worse since my wife's new 07 was purchased. Used to be you got at least one oc a year if the car's computer did not call for it. Now that's gone & it's per the computer or 15k whichever comes first.

I don't think all those motors magically got better/stronger and the oil is getting worse (google zddp level reduced per government/EPA) . My common sense tells me BMW financial executives cut back on the budget for "free" service and leaned on the BMW engineers to "approve" it.

Just my opinion.

I would pull the pan & do a visual before anything else.

Agree on the smg & that's a nice of you on the offer for a used motor,

OP should take you up on it if need be.

Tom Berry wrote:

Bob Pl wrote: I think a lot of late model BMW's are going to be biting 2nd owners due to the 15000 mile OC interval recommended by mfg. Throw in "lifetime" automatic transmission fluid & you are holding a grenade with a pulled pin. Don't let go.

Wow... you are "Mr Good News" Bob!... his first mistake was buying one with the SMG trans.!!
I can get you a used motor if all else fails.

Thank you Tom, I would let Dave know if he decides to go with another motor.
By the way why would you pass on a SMG? Are they less reliable?

[/quote]
Wow... you are "Mr Good News" Bob!... his first mistake was buying one with the SMG trans.!!
I can get you a used motor if all else fails.[/quote]

I'm with you, Tom.
Much like Chinese food, BMWs should be prepared without SMG.

Bob Pl wrote:I think a lot of late model BMW's are going to be biting 2nd owners due to the 15000 mile OC interval recommended by mfg. Throw in "lifetime" automatic transmission fluid & you are holding a grenade with a pulled pin. Don't let go.

Have you had any lab analyses done that indicate that 15k miles is too long on a BMW with synthetic?

John Stimson wrote:

Bob Pl wrote:I think a lot of late model BMW's are going to be biting 2nd owners due to the 15000 mile OC interval recommended by mfg. Throw in "lifetime" automatic transmission fluid & you are holding a grenade with a pulled pin. Don't let go.

Have you had any lab analyses done that indicate that 15k miles is too long on a BMW with synthetic?

Hi John,

Here is a thread from BITOG, many consider this forum a good place to get "independent" info on oil (independent from oil/car industry sources). If you spend a few hours & read a lot of threads the consensus seems to come in at about 7500 mile oc with good full synthetic. Less w/ turbos.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... ber=152919" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A lot of mentions of sludged motors when owners have gone to the (recommended) 15000 oc interval.

Car companies and governments agencies have "agendas", they have a lot of other parameters that go into service intervals and government oil standards, the least of which is how these affect the bearings in any given motor.

For myself, the problem I have with the process of getting oil tested is that by the time you have a test come back with traces of metals in the oil, well the damage has already been started, hasn't it? The wear has happened.

Sample testing makes sense on long haul tractor fleets for sure, those motors take a LOT of oil & turn hundreds of thousands of miles per year.

I would rather take the money & time it takes to do a sample & just do a preventative oil change, and no I'm not one of those 3000 mile guys, but I have no issue, if a guy wants to do it that often.

Enjoy BITOG forum.

Bob Pl wrote:
Here is a thread from BITOG, many consider this forum a good place to get "independent" info on oil (independent from oil/car industry

Where does the forum get the data/info/funding that takes it outside the industry or government?

KJ Christopher wrote:

Bob Pl wrote:
Here is a thread from BITOG, many consider this forum a good place to get "independent" info on oil (independent from oil/car industry

Where does the forum get the data/info/funding that takes it outside the industry or government?

Hi KJ,

We need one more forum member for this to be an official emugging, who will join in?

Isn't that a "misdirect" or "red herring" or "poison the source" legal tactic?

Steve E. help me out here.

Guys, I don't care if you want to run your oil for 50k miles.

My next door neighbor brags about his (leased) BMW never getting oil changes, he comes into my garage when his low oil warning illuminates and bums a qt. off me because he knows I have it. He jokes about the next poor ba@#$rd who buys his CPO BMW. I doubt it'll be CPO with no service records but I humor him. Nice guy otherwise, generation that throws away things when they break/need service.

I am posting my OPINION on extended BMW oc intervals, that's all, did I break a forum rule?

It's been a while.

Christos Adam wrote:

Tom Berry wrote:

Bob Pl wrote: I think a lot of late model BMW's are going to be biting 2nd owners due to the 15000 mile OC interval recommended by mfg. Throw in "lifetime" automatic transmission fluid & you are holding a grenade with a pulled pin. Don't let go.

Wow... you are "Mr Good News" Bob!... his first mistake was buying one with the SMG trans.!!
I can get you a used motor if all else fails.

Thank you Tom, I would let Dave know if he decides to go with another motor.
By the way why would you pass on a SMG? Are they less reliable?

I have an '02 E46 M3 with 6-speed transmission. A synchro went bad on it as it kept popping out of 3rd gear into neutral. Not particular fond of that especially if I'm in a curve and I go to accelerate and all I see is the needle redlining yet I'm not accelerating!

So I had to replace my transmission. Now I bought the car used 3yrs ago, and it happened 1 month after I bought my extended warranty. Waited a year and it got progressively worse. Thank goodness for the warranty. Now I do have a cap per claims of $3,500. But a dealer re-build manual 6-spd tranny will cost you $6k! So my mechanic sold it to me at cost ($4.5k) but still I had to cover the difference. Not bad. Had my car come with SMG (which I wouldn't have bought one with it anyway), the cost is $9k!!!! SMGs are like grenades without the pin and you're holding onto it. Eventually they'll BLOW!

Avoid SMG whether it's in your car or as someone mentioned...your food.

Bob Pl wrote:

KJ Christopher wrote:

Bob Pl wrote:
Here is a thread from BITOG, many consider this forum a good place to get "independent" info on oil (independent from oil/car industry

Where does the forum get the data/info/funding that takes it outside the industry or government?

Hi KJ,

We need one more forum member for this to be an official emugging, who will join in?

Isn't that a "misdirect" or "red herring" or "poison the source" legal tactic?

Sorry Bob - that was actually a serious question, not a smart-ass remark. Typing on my iPhone keeps me a little short sometimes.

Just thinking logically, I'm having trouble visualizing an institution/entity that could afford to do serious testing/analysis that isn't actually in the business or otherwise have some sort of agenda.

I'm actually in the camp of "have it analyzed or changed more frequently". While modern technology (Fuel injection and oil formulations) have certainly made the 3000 mile interval a thing of the past, I'm not sure I'm in the 15000 mile camp. That said, I knew several people on turbodieselregister who ran a bypass oil filtration system and had their oil analyzed frequently. The bypass filter kept it so clean that they could go on and on and on, just changing filters and topping off the oil.

My bad,

I've just been burned a few times on this forum for my unbiased opinions, it's like "There goes crazy Bob with an opinion about xyz, let's get him".

I am a surprised a gearhead like you, is not familiar with BITOG, it's THE BIGGEST "Let's argue about oil" forum there is, marque/engine/commuter/racer independent. Want to know what oil to put in your lawnmower, there's a few threads (kidding, maybe).

Here is the home page.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is listing of forum supporters.

It's not like a Consumer Reports site, or UL Testing organization. Just a place where everybody who likes to discuss oil goes.

If you are opinionated about oil, as I am, and are looking to do the best for all your internal combustion devices, check it out.

Disclaimer, BITOG is not my forum, I am not the Bob.

Bob Pl wrote:My bad,

I've just been burned a few times on this forum for my unbiased opinions, it's like "There goes crazy Bob with an opinion about xyz, let's get him".

I am a surprised a gearhead like you, is not familiar with BITOG, it's THE BIGGEST "Let's argue about oil" forum there is, marque/engine/commuter/racer independent. Want to know what oil to put in your lawnmower, there's a few threads (kidding, maybe).

Here is the home page.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is listing of forum supporters.

It's not like a Consumer Reports site, or UL Testing organization. Just a place where everybody who likes to discuss oil goes.

If you are opinionated about oil, as I am, and are looking to do the best for all your internal combustion devices, check it out.

Disclaimer, BITOG is not my forum, I am not the Bob.

I have this oil forum bookmarked when I used to be an AMSOIL dealer.

I guess my problem with the whole oil discussion is the stuff is cheap, there is general agreement that just about any oil on the market with SAE on it will meet or beat 3k miles. Synthetics will last longer. I know for me an oil change with Mobil 1 costs $35. I can spend that on lunch, it doesn't bother my to drop that on my cars every 3,500 to 7,500 miles (depending on car recommendation) or 6 months whichever comes first. The worst you can say is I perhaps throw away $70 per car per year, but realistically I am not worried about oil related breakdown. My worst car got about a 160k before I got rid of it, I currently have a Hyundai with 265K without an engine problem to date, and had a Mercedes that when 480K before a water hose failure took out the head.

If I owned a Bimmer I don't think I would have any problem coughing up the money for an oil change. If you can make the payments I just can't understand worrying about the cost of oil.

Is this just a repetitive esoteric debate or is anyone really worried about making their oil go and extra couple of thousand miles?

Arthur Grant wrote:Is this just a repetitive esoteric debate or is anyone really worried about making their oil go and extra couple of thousand miles?

I don't think the debate centers on whether you or I or anyone else on this board would go 15K without changing the oil. I think the question posed is would you trust the average d-bag buying a new Bimmer to change the oil on his/her own initiative given that BMW recommends 12-15K. Before I'd buy a used M3, I'd either need to know the seller and be convinced that he/she changed the oil more frequently than BMW's recommendation, or have proof. And like Bob said, I'd probably drop the oil pan to look for sludge.

Hmm, so let's see how the anecdotal evidence goes : if my car lasts 200K miles, it must be because I changed the oil every 5000 miles. If my car develops an engine problem, it must be because the oil has been changed too infrequently - every 12-15K miles. For all I now, there is no evidence that 12-15K miles is too long of an interval for a car driven with synthetic oil.
But let's try to keep this thread on the topic - it's not why Dave's engine has a problem, but what his engine problem is and how he can fix it most cost effectively.

His dealer says bearing and 18K for a long block. Last I heard from Dave is that a private mechanic (Avus Autosport) is positive that it is the top end and wants 6K to rebuild the head. So top end, bottom end, which one is it?

Mihail Milkov wrote:But let's try to keep this thread on the topic -?

LOL - you must not come to this bar often...

Breaking new..so as Mihail said a couple of post up...
Dave went to this new BMW service center that everyone in the forums says that is the best and most honest BMW shop.

The guys said "probably the previous shop just wanted to sell you an engine!"

They did some small adjustments in the valves and vanos system changed the oil and the car was fine

They suggested him not to go with the BMW suggested maintenance and to change the oil more often!

Christos Adam wrote:They suggested him not to go with the BMW suggested maintenance and to change the oil more often!

I just changed my oil last night after just under 7K miles. Oil looked dirty and I can't imagine doubling that interval. Sent a sample to Blackstone to see how it looks.