Cal Club Autocross Forums

I'm giving some thought towards maybe ( Just Maybe ) switching over to ES from STS...?
& wanted to get your thoughts on why you would say one over the other?
I'm only currently in STS because the car I bought is lowered with adjustable shocks.
I'm still learning about the rules & such, but noticed at our local events I'm usually the only STS there..?

Of course I've only been to 3 maybe 4 events so far, but still...
Are there usually more ES than STS?

& what about times?
is ES much slower than STS?
At my driving skill level it's not an issue really but I'm curious.

Your car would have to be stock (not lowered) to fit into ES. If you were going to revert it to stock, then you should come play with us in SK2 (since you're already using street tires, being in STS). I don't think our local ES class is any more active than the local STS class.

Jeff is right, ut to expand on what he said, having adjustable shocks is stock legal (two adjustments: compression and rebound), but the spring would have to be OEM. But if you find that bringing the car back to stock prep isn't too involved or expensive, Jeff's suggestion that you run in SK2 is a good one. No dearth of drivers or competition.

Jeff Stuart wrote:Your car would have to be stock (not lowered) to fit into ES. If you were going to revert it to stock, then you should come play with us in SK2 (since you're already using street tires, being in STS). I don't think our local ES class is any more active than the local STS class.

SK2? :ibrightdea:
Oh Crap! Another class to start reading about..

Just trying to figure out what class would be the most fun for me.
I dont really wanna raise the car back up, but will do it for the added fun of racing in a funner class.
With more people to chase.
It was fun having 5 of us at the divisional, but they all handed my ass to me.
Of course I realize that the newest guy there racing STS has been racing it for about 5 years & the rest have been doing it much longer. ( I'm not sure, but I think this was my 3 or 4th event )
But while talking to leonard he told me I would probably learn a lot more racing in ES?
While talking to Rayeo I learned that in ES you can run R-compounds. ( wonder how much that could make up for suspension? )
I'm not sure how what class I'm in would effect my learning curve though?
I figure its just a matter of time & keeping at it.

I do like for the street world the sportier look of the lowered Miata though.

Now that I think about it, there were a lot of SK2's this weekend vs ES...

Kurt Ra wrote:Jeff is right, ut to expand on what he said, having adjustable shocks is stock legal (two adjustments: compression and rebound), but the spring would have to be OEM. But if you find that bringing the car back to stock prep isn't too involved or expensive, Jeff's suggestion that you run in SK2 is a good one. No dearth of drivers or competition.

Dearth?

SK2 is a local class (not nationally recognized) which is a combination of HS, GS, ES, DS, and CS cars, with the only additional rule being that you must use street tires (same as STS). The times are indexed together using the PAX index, the same as you'll see in the local PAX class. So, you can modify the car the same as you can for stock classes (front sway bar, cat back exhaust, shocks, lighter wheels). Unfortunately (or fortunately, IMO), springs are not among the allowances for the stock class, so you have to run the stock springs.

Cam Correa wrote:Dearth?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dearth&l=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cam Correa wrote:

Kurt Ra wrote:Jeff is right, ut to expand on what he said, having adjustable shocks is stock legal (two adjustments: compression and rebound), but the spring would have to be OEM. But if you find that bringing the car back to stock prep isn't too involved or expensive, Jeff's suggestion that you run in SK2 is a good one. No dearth of drivers or competition.

Dearth?

Edit: No dearth means there's a bunch. ;)

Hey Cam,

Have you considered CST? It's a great choice in that there's a terrific local turnout, sometimes as may as 16-18 cars, and you can run amok with mods as long as you're on street tires that are 140 treadwear or higher. The upside is you're not beholden to the rulemakers (it seems many wake up in a cold sweat when the latest Fast Track comes out); the downside is it's not a national class, which may not be a downside at all, depending on your aspirations. Also, the CST PAX rating seems to be geared toward Lotus Exiges.

The mood is more relaxed in this class, which can add to the fun factor. Depends on how you're wired.

Dearth is a lack of something, or scarcity.

Hey Cam,

Mike and I run CST locally because we ended running against each other last year in STS. It's a bigger class for local events, and you can always run STS during the National events (SD Tour, El Toro ProSolo, Divisional in our region).

Cam Correa wrote:I'm giving some thought towards maybe ( Just Maybe ) switching over to ES from STS...?

If this is your daily driver, think about your daily drive. I would want my car to be stiffer than stock for everyday fun.

Jay W

Jayson Woodruff wrote:I would want my car to be stiffer than stock for everyday fun.

Freud would have a field day with that

Jayson Woodruff wrote:

Cam Correa wrote:I'm giving some thought towards maybe ( Just Maybe ) switching over to ES from STS...?

If this is your daily driver, think about your daily drive. I would want my car to be stiffer than stock for everyday fun.

Jay W

Wow! Now CST?!?!?! too many options!
This is making it even more confusing.
Its is my DD but then again I don't really drive it much.
I'm basically unemployed these days & most of my driving is to the supermarket & little things like that, So I'm actually considering leaving all them required stickers from the divisional on the car being I don't really drive it much.
I do have multiple cars to choose from daily to drive so........ I only drive the Miata because I actually like the car.

Let me simplify the classes for you:

ES - adjustable-damping shocks, stock springs & heights, front swaybar, can run DOT-R tires on stock-sized wheels
SK2 - ES rules but on street tires, you will be mixed in with cars from other low-powered classes and have your times adjusted by a handicap system
STS - any springs & shock & height, any wheel up to 7.5" wide, street tires
CST - anything goes as long as the car is on street tires and looks like a street car. No handicaps, and if someone shows up in a 3-rotor bugeye sprite on street tires, you have to run against them straight up. Not that that ever happens, but it gives you an idea of the range of cars that you might have to run against.

Thanks John!

^^ Looks like something to incorporate into the Novice page, just change ES to Stock Class.

Hi Cam,

It was fun having you join us this last weekend.

My suggestion, keep the car as is. Your new, we all started there. We all (ok most, theirs that 1 in a million who joins, for which our region has lucked into a few) got our *** handed to us when started. It's all about seat time. Learn how to drive what you have to the best of it's ability for the remainder of the year.

If your in the hunt for the novice trophy, stick with STS, even though those of us who run it currently have work conflicts that keep us from attending regularly. If you want competition now, and don't care about your index for the Novice year end points trophy, run in CST while keeping the car STS legal. Why, because if you like the sport and stick with it, STS is a competitive class for the car that has national event legality. CST is a local only class, and prepping to be competitive in the "run what you brung" class could make your car uncompetitive in any National class it may still be legal for.

As you plan for next year, with a year under your belt, then you can think about how you might like to change the car, and or class, for your first full year beyond being a novice.

Cam Correa wrote:

Jeff Stuart wrote: Now that I think about it, there were a lot of SK2's this weekend vs ES...

Ya, there was only 1 car in ES....mine. Had you and one or two others been in ES, one of us would have trophied. For what ever it's worth.

My 95 Miata is bone stock except that it has 15" x 7" rims. So, it is running "out of class". But as long as I'm the only one in the class, it really doesn't matter. My plan is to get legal rims and tires and stay in ES. For now, it's all about seat time anyway.

I'm a newbie like you. I would strongly recommend that you get the book "Winning Autocross Techniques" by Ross Bently. If you download it from Amazon to a Kindle it is only $9.00. Otherwise it is under $14.00. I've started reading it and have already picked up some nuggets.

Ed Holley wrote:

Cam Correa wrote:

Jeff Stuart wrote: Now that I think about it, there were a lot of SK2's this weekend vs ES...

Ya, there was only 1 car in ES....mine. Had you and one or two others been in ES, one of us would have trophied. For what ever it's worth.

My 95 Miata is bone stock except that it has 15" x 7" rims. So, it is running "out of class". But as long as I'm the only one in the class, it really doesn't matter. My plan is to get legal rims and tires and stay in ES. For now, it's all about seat time anyway.

I'm a newbie like you. I would strongly recommend that you get the book "Winning Autocross Techniques" by Ross Bently. If you download it from Amazon to a Kindle it is only $9.00. Otherwise it is under $14.00. I've started reading it and have already picked up some nuggets.

Thanks I'll look that book up.
Just curious what were your times on Sunday?
My best time Sunday was about a 100.??? +2

Ed Holley wrote:

Cam Correa wrote:
I'm a newbie like you.

And how come I don't see either of you signed up for the Novice School on July 15-16????? You won't get another chance for this level of training, from this level of instructors, for this low of a price, for another year. You really should not miss it!

CSCC Autocross School

Rick Brown wrote:

Ed Holley wrote:

Cam Correa wrote:
I'm a newbie like you.

And how come I don't see either of you signed up for the Novice School on July 15-16????? You won't get another chance for this level of training, from this level of instructors, for this low of a price, for another year. You really should not miss it!

CSCC Autocross School

I really wanna attend that school, but I'll be overseas in the UK for 23 days & the school is right in the middle of that time frame.

Oh & i looked for the book mentioned earlier & I know I actually already own it, I recognized it when I saw the picture of it.
I'll have to find it. ( I probably bought it back 2008 & then forgot about it. )

Amazon Used FTW!

Ed Holley wrote:My 95 Miata is bone stock except that it has 15" x 7" rims. So, it is running "out of class". But as long as I'm the only one in the class, it really doesn't matter. My plan is to get legal rims and tires...

Hi Ed,
It just so happens I have multiple legal rims for sale.

To visualize the Factory rims them click this link. http://www.miata.net/faq/wheel_weights.html#weight" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have a set of 4 14x5.5 steel rims (Description/Picture #1)
I have a set of 2 15x6 Aluminum rims (Description/Picture #7) In sparkling mat silver.
I have 1 15x6 Aluminum rim (Description/Picture #7) In mat silver.
I have 1 15x6 Aluminum rim ((Description/Picture #10)

In addition I have a set 14x5.5 Revolution rims in white. http://www.matey-matey.com/revolution-wheels.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Craig

Would I be allowed to run the 15 or 16" wheels that came on the later models even thought my car came factory with 14" wheels & be legal in ES?

Cam Correa wrote:Would I be allowed to run the 15 or 16" wheels that came on the later models even thought my car came factory with 14" wheels & be legal in ES?

Stock class cars must run a rim that was available (standard or optional) on the package/trim level of the car you have. So the same thing applies as the other post line on whats legal in stock.

If your package/trim level had 14 X 5.5 rims standard, and a 15x6 was not a standalone factory (not dealer) option, then you are stuck in ES on the 14x5.5 rims. If it was 14x6, then 14x6 is your only option ect, ect. Additionally you can not vary the offset more than 1/4" from the factory rims either.

Your not stuck with Mazda rims. You can use any rim available in your size, with no more and no less than a 1/4" variance in offset.

If yours is 14x6 there are MANY options available for you. If it was the 14x5.5 there are not many options available that are light. That said the revolutions are one of the lightest 14x5.5 rims available.