Cal Club Autocross Forums

I just read in SportsCar that both the Tours (which we knew from previous communications) AND the ProSolos will have street tire indexed classes this year. I went to the scca.com site and no mention of anything (that I could easily find, anyway).

A few questions for those in the know, based on what was put forth in the SportsCar article:
* Will both Tours *and* ProSolos, in fact, have street tire indexed classes?
* Will all cars be lumped into the same class based on driven wheels without any additional indices applied, as the article implies, or will additional stock class PAXes be applied as well? (in other words, will an ES Miata be running against a SS Corvette Z06 in SR heads up?)

Kurt Rahn wrote:I just read in SportsCar that both the Tours (which we knew from previous communications) AND the ProSolos will have street tire indexed classes this year. I went to the scca.com site and no mention of anything (that I could easily find, anyway).

A few questions for those in the know, based on what was put forth in the SportsCar article:
* Will both Tours *and* ProSolos, in fact, have street tire indexed classes?
* Will all cars be lumped into the same class based on driven wheels without any additional indices applied, as the article implies, or will additional stock class PAXes be applied as well? (in other words, will an ES Miata be running against a SS Corvette Z06 in SR heads up?)

I believe Eric and/or Mari can answer that.

Rick Brown wrote:

Kurt Rahn wrote:I just read in SportsCar that both the Tours (which we knew from previous communications) AND the ProSolos will have street tire indexed classes this year. I went to the scca.com site and no mention of anything (that I could easily find, anyway).

A few questions for those in the know, based on what was put forth in the SportsCar article:
* Will both Tours *and* ProSolos, in fact, have street tire indexed classes?
* Will all cars be lumped into the same class based on driven wheels without any additional indices applied, as the article implies, or will additional stock class PAXes be applied as well? (in other words, will an ES Miata be running against a SS Corvette Z06 in SR heads up?)

I believe Eric and/or Mari can answer that.

Right you are. I'll go visit them this weekend.

RTA, RTF, RTR.
Three indexed classes by drive type. Road tire AWD, road tire front drive, road tire rear drive.

Howard is putting them in ProSolo, Mike can tell us if the SEB is on board for Tours.

Eric Clements wrote:RTA, RTF, RTR.
Three indexed classes by drive type. Road tire AWD, road tire front drive, road tire rear drive.

Howard is putting them in ProSolo, Mike can tell us if the SEB is on board for Tours.

According to the letter Howard sent out to everyone, the Tours are confirmed.

I'm happy in RTF. :gpower: :gpower: :gpower: However, I imagine all the Miatas will be unhappy in RTR, since they'll be the bottom feeders. Not my problem, though

Kurt Rahn wrote:

Eric Clements wrote:RTA, RTF, RTR.
Three indexed classes by drive type. Road tire AWD, road tire front drive, road tire rear drive.

Howard is putting them in ProSolo, Mike can tell us if the SEB is on board for Tours.

According to the letter Howard sent out to everyone, the Tours are confirmed.

I'm happy in RTF. :gpower: :gpower: :gpower: However, I imagine all the Miatas will be unhappy in RTR, since they'll be the bottom feeders. Not my problem, though

Indexed though right?

Frankly, ITR would kick your ass if it's straight up.

Jay W

Jayson Woodruff wrote: Indexed though right?

Right.

Eric Clements wrote:

Jayson Woodruff wrote: Indexed though right?

Right.

How does the index work in this case? Is it based on the original class the car belongs to?

Jayson Woodruff wrote:Frankly, ITR would kick your ass if it's straight up.

ITR?

Integra Type R

Kurt Rahn wrote:

Jayson Woodruff wrote:Frankly, ITR would kick your ass if it's straight up.

ITR?

Integra Type R The myth. The Legend. (Well, really it an Integra, not a Legend.)

Max Hayter wrote:Integra Type R

Aaahh. The ITR is also DS, so it's straight up whether it's indexed or not. But cars act differently on street tires. I wouldn't jump to that conclusion.

Kurt Rahn wrote:

Max Hayter wrote:Integra Type R

Aaahh. The ITR is also DS, so it's straight up whether it's indexed or not. But cars act differently on street tires. I wouldn't jump to that conclusion.

My bet will still be on the ITR. It weighs nearly 1,000 lbs less than your car, and has about 20hp more. You do have about 40lb-ft of torque more than the ITR though.

I think you've got your car mixed up with Kurt's, no way a Cooper S weighs 1,000lbs more than an ITR in stock form.

Sebastian Rios wrote:I think you've got your car mixed up with Kurt's, no way a Cooper S weighs 1,000lbs more than an ITR in stock form.

Ok, nevermind. I was reading the wrong weigh numbers (gross vs. curb).

Kurt Rahn wrote:

Max Hayter wrote:Integra Type R

Aaahh. The ITR is also DS, so it's straight up whether it's indexed or not. But cars act differently on street tires. I wouldn't jump to that conclusion.

The Cooper S used to be in DS with the ITR, then got moved to GS because it was getting beat up. The Cooper S has evolved a little since then, and the ITRs have been gradually picked off by thives, but like Vincent, my money is still on them.

When the ITR was new, I read some magizine that ran it against the 10AE miata in an autox like format. While the Miata was given props for being easy to drive fast, the ITR actually won.

Weight and traction are the premium on street tires. Look for smaller/lighter/older cars to out handicap their R-comp counterparts.

Jay W

Vincent Wong wrote:

Sebastian Rios wrote:I think you've got your car mixed up with Kurt's, no way a Cooper S weighs 1,000lbs more than an ITR in stock form.

Ok, nevermind. I was reading the wrong weigh numbers (gross vs. curb).

The MINI is lighter by about 40 pounds (2639 to 2590).
ITR has 195 hp and 130 lbs/ft torque, while the MINI has 172 hp and 177 lbs/ft torque
ITR is about an inch wider and 5 inches shorter, but the MINI has a shorter wheelbase by four inches.
ITR runs 15" wheels while the MINI can run either 16" or 17"

Hm... I'd say it'd be pretty close and course dependent.

Leonard Cachola wrote:Hm... I'd say it'd be pretty close and course dependent.

Looking at the national results over the last couple years backs this up. No doubt that Alex Muresan or Kinch Reindl would kick my ass, but they'd do that whether they were driving their ITR or my Mini.

KJ Christopher wrote:Integra Type R The myth. The Legend. (Well, really it an Integra, not a Legend.)

It's a testament to your Integraty that you have such Vigor to add Acuracy to your statement.

The wheel size might make a difference. The Integra runs on 6" wide wheels, the MINI on 7". That doesn't make as much difference with DOT-R tires because of the super stiff sidewalls, but street tires get pretty floppy when you put them on a wheel that's too narrow. So the MINI may make more effective use of wider street tires.

Will Kalman wrote:

KJ Christopher wrote:Integra Type R The myth. The Legend. (Well, really it an Integra, not a Legend.)

It's a testament to your Integraty that you have such Vigor to add Acuracy to your statement.

Groan....

Jayson Woodruff wrote:

Kurt Rahn wrote:

Max Hayter wrote:Integra Type R

Aaahh. The ITR is also DS, so it's straight up whether it's indexed or not. But cars act differently on street tires. I wouldn't jump to that conclusion.

The Cooper S used to be in DS with the ITR, then got moved to GS because it was getting beat up. The Cooper S has evolved a little since then, and the ITRs have been gradually picked off by thives, but like Vincent, my money is still on them.

When the ITR was new, I read some magizine that ran it against the 10AE miata in an autox like format. While the Miata was given props for being easy to drive fast, the ITR actually won.

Weight and traction are the premium on street tires. Look for smaller/lighter/older cars to out handicap their R-comp counterparts.

Jay W

The Miata was faster than the ITR in the autox format but was beaten in the track format (SOW) if you're thinking of the SCC article. And it was a Miata Sport not a 10AE.

Resurrecting an old thread...

I just signed up for the local nats and prosolo events in the road tire class. A couple of questions, if anyone knows the answers:

- The nationals registration had RTA, RTF, and RTR classes available, but the prosolo only had a single "Road Tire" class. Will all road tire vehicles be lumped together at the prosolo or will they still be separating by drive axle?
- I'm trying to get my numbering together... is RTR the correct abbreviation for the Road Tire Rear class? I assume that if the ProSolo does lump everyone together I can leave the last R off and RT would be the correct abbreviation for car lettering?

I figured I'd ask here first in case anyone knew, and if not I figure someone will be able to point me in the right direction of who to ask.

Thanks!

Davin Swanson wrote:Resurrecting an old thread...

I just signed up for the local nats and prosolo events in the road tire class. A couple of questions, if anyone knows the answers:

- The nationals registration had RTA, RTF, and RTR classes available, but the prosolo only had a single "Road Tire" class. Will all road tire vehicles be lumped together at the prosolo or will they still be separating by drive axle?
- I'm trying to get my numbering together... is RTR the correct abbreviation for the Road Tire Rear class? I assume that if the ProSolo does lump everyone together I can leave the last R off and RT would be the correct abbreviation for car lettering?

I figured I'd ask here first in case anyone knew, and if not I figure someone will be able to point me in the right direction of who to ask.

Thanks!

I was wondering that myself.

I did a little more digging. There's a story on the SCCA website (http://www.scca.com/events/news.cfm?eid=3893&cid=50923" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) about the street tire classes. It states:


National Tour events will see the addition of 6 RT Classes, 3 open and 3 ladies, divided by drivetrain. RTF will include all front wheel drive Stock classed cars, RTR will be for all rear wheel drive cars and RTA will cater to all wheel drive vehicles. These classes will be scored on Rick Ruth’s Racer’s Theoretical Performance (RTP) indexing system.

The ProSolo series will only get two of these classes. An Open and a Ladies class for all RT cars. The Open Class will be simply be denoted as RT, while the Ladies class will follow the traditional Ladies classing and carry an L4 designation. These classes will also be scored using the RTP index.


So there you go. You still get to beat me at the ProSolo, Kurt, but not in San Diego.