Cal Club Autocross Forums

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Hmmmmmm.
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The SEB is considering, per 14.3.D, the following addition to the ST tire exclusion list, effective 1/1/2013:

Toyo Proxes R1R 195/50-15 size only

Comment: This size has proven to be faster than the rest of the R1R lineup, and in classes in which some cars can use this
tire where other cars cannot, it is discouraging participation by those unable to use it. It is the opinion of the SEB that those
members who are currently running this tire have many other options which will maintain the competitiveness of their car,
while also encouraging more participation by those members who cannot use this size. Much of the feedback to the now
withdrawn proposal to raise the treadwear limit contained suggestions that the SEB better utilize the exclusion list, versus
SCCA FasTrack News July 2012 Page 44 making a wholesale change to the treadwear limit. This proposal is in response to that feedback.

FR-S and BR-Z in C-stock and it looks like moving the MS-R and Z0K to B-Stock could becoming reality as a result.

LOL @ R1R Ban ...

it won't matter by 2013 since there SHOULD be new crops of ST* tires coming available that should be faster. Most people are forgetting that the Toyo has been out for 5 years now. ;)

Jonathan Lugod wrote:LOL @ R1R Ban ...

it won't matter by 2013 since there SHOULD be new crops of ST* tires coming available that should be faster. Most people are forgetting that the Toyo has been out for 5 years now. ;)

You guys getting the A6 w/thread now? That be the next step....

Bill Schenker wrote:

Jonathan Lugod wrote:LOL @ R1R Ban ...

it won't matter by 2013 since there SHOULD be new crops of ST* tires coming available that should be faster. Most people are forgetting that the Toyo has been out for 5 years now. ;)

You guys getting the A6 w/thread now? That be the next step....

I was in favor of the 200 treadwear proposal. :king:, not that treadwear rating means anything, but at least its some kind of control. Plus, IMO i don't think the Toyo was a ringer. It was just unfortunate that the other sizes didn't have the longevity use that the 195 had. I ran my 195s down to the cord which was around 200 runs.

Now that the Civic is out of STX, what ST class are they talking about? STC: Doesn't matter what tire, Civic wins. STS: CRX and Miata can effectively use 195/50-15. The one contender in STX that could conceivably use that size is the ITR, but I think given the wheel allowances, it would be better served on 205s or 225s. Are we doing this so Hollis has more fresh meat to beat on in STF, a PROVISIONAL class?

There is still no proof that only the 195/50-15 R1R is the same compound throughout the tread.

The problem is perception, not reality.

German muscle cars in FS is a good move.

Toyabaru should go to ES along with NB Miata.

Is David's 318 good for FSP?

I was pretty thoroughly shot down and flamed for claiming the tire talk from the SEB was a witch hunt for the Toyo's....

But clearly it was.

Okay, sorry, not all Toyo R1R's, just the only tire that matters in STC and STS.

Its not a magic tire. Its a cheap tire that pays contingency money and works well on small cars. Why make a change now? To make BFG happy? }:)

Sebastian Rios wrote: ...Toyabaru should go to ES along with NB Miata.

Ahh..I vote NO!!!

Sebastian Rios wrote:German muscle cars in FS is a good move.

If they do this, I'm writing to SCCA to move my S4 to FS also. I asked them to class it in FS to begin with, but SCCA thought it was more appropriate in BS.

I think your car is a good fit for FS. Maybe they just missed it?

our 205 R1R's clearly petered out early, ie. with half of it's tread still there ... while "everyone," incl. Lugod says the 195 stays good til the end

If the E46 M3 goes into FS I'm going to seriously regret buying the RX-8.

What depth do the 195/50-15 Toyo users shave them to?

After some conversations with Toyo folks, my conclusion is that it's an issue that's lost in translation. When you ask if the tires all use the same compound, they say yes.. when you ask if the tires all use the same construction, they say no. I've been using the 195 Toyo not because it's faster (because on the Miata it's not) but it is consistent all the way to the treadwear bars... something that no other Toyo I've tested has ever done. The simple fact is, it's the best value of all of their tires because you can use 100% of the tread, opposed to the other sizes that go off significantly at about 1/2 tread.

Now, if someone would just make a decent 225/50-15...

Also, notice an underprepared FR-S nearly won RTR this weekend indexed as a CS car? Sandbagging would have been a smart move considering the circumstances. On paper it specs awfully close to the RX-8, so I'm expecting it will be in CS.

And yes Ed, the NB Mata should be an ES car. Sorry.

Ed Holley wrote:

Sebastian Rios wrote: ...Toyabaru should go to ES along with NB Miata.

Ahh..I vote NO!!!

And why not? The NB with its 138-140 hp is no match on paper with the RX-8, 350Z, 370Z, older 911s or M3s that are currently in C-Stock. The NA and NB share the same 20+ year-old chassis and though the NB is more powerful, it weighs more.

John Stimson wrote:If the E46 M3 goes into FS I'm going to seriously regret buying the RX-8.

With the Z0K and the MS-R possibly moving to BS, that would give the RX-8 a new lease on life in C-Stock. On paper, it matches up very well with the Toyobaru twins.

Who cares if the MS-R and Z0K get moved out of CS -- if the E46 M3 goes into FS, that thing is going to kill. Compared to the RX-8, it's a faster car and it would be going into a slower class.

Sebastian Rios wrote:German muscle cars in FS is a good move.

Toyabaru should go to ES along with NB Miata.

Is David's 318 good for FSP?

I have a 318is at home too not planning on FSP tho.

I agree the brz/frs should be in ES, the class need some new blood.

John Stimson wrote:Who cares if the MS-R and Z0K get moved out of CS -- if the E46 M3 goes into FS, that thing is going to kill. Compared to the RX-8, it's a faster car and it would be going into a slower class.

John,

If you think the E46 would kill, what do you think the E90 would do?

Ken Motonishi wrote:

John Stimson wrote:Who cares if the MS-R and Z0K get moved out of CS -- if the E46 M3 goes into FS, that thing is going to kill. Compared to the RX-8, it's a faster car and it would be going into a slower class.

If you think the E46 would kill, what do you think the E90 would do?

The only guy I know who has owned and autocrossed both didn't seem to think that the E90 was as good of an autocross car. It's bigger and heavier.