Cal Club Autocross Forums

It's site dependent I guess but the factor used at nationals was .975

not happening for 2013 for sure, probably not happening ever unless they just get rid of regular stock class all together.

So how are the RT classes going to work?

Mako Koiwai wrote:So how are the RT classes going to work?

the same as they did this year?

Bobby Beyer wrote:It's site dependent I guess but the factor used at nationals was .975

What are you referring to here? When I looked at Rick Ruth's PAX/RTP national results, he just used the regular stock class index numbers for the RT folks. Needless to say that ranked them way down.

See here:

http://www.sccaforums.com/forums/forumi ... cope/posts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Mako...your question is unclear as well. RT is already in place as a demo program. What are you asking?

Bobby, when you say 0.975 was used "at Nationals", what do you mean by that? PAX isn't a part of Nationals competition. There is an exception this year for the RT classes, and that exception is within those classes, the Stock indexes are used. I'm guessing you saw someone's list of indexed times for everyone at Nationals, and that person chose to use 0.975. The SCCA doesn't publish or recognize an overall indexed time list. You could calculate one yourself, and use any index you wanted to for the RT classes.

Mako: How are they going to work locally for folks who want to run PAX class with an RT base class? That's up to CSCC to decide, and I'd guess we'll just continue however it was done this year. Rick Ruth, who is the sole person responsible for the PAX, hasn't been very friendly to the idea of creating an overall adjustment for street tires, and I don't really blame him (it would be hard to do and wildly inaccurate). There's probably not really enough data from this year to do separate indexes for RTR, RTF, and RTA: those were only run at the National Tours, and not all of those classes were well-subscribed at all of the Tours. I think Marshall is right. It won't really be worth Rick's time to generate indexes until those classes look like they will become permanent, and in their final form, and have enough participants that the statistics are vaguely meaningful.

That's up to CSCC to decide

So it hasn't been decided yet how to level the RT classes we're running next year instead of SK1/2 ?

Just trying to intelligently decide which car we might run in RT next year

This is what I'm referring too...http://www.sccaforums.com/forums/forumi ... cope/posts I don't know if it was official or not but even with the PAX factor included none of the road tire guys broke the top 150 and even so it doesn't matter as you stated since the PAX factor is equal and doesn't affect the results from any other class.

Mako Koiwai wrote:

That's up to CSCC to decide

So it hasn't been decided yet how to level the RT classes we're running next year instead of SK1/2 ?

Just trying to intelligently decide which car we might run in RT next year

RT will be run just like SK1/SK2, except they will be split into RTF, RTA and RTR.

Within that, every car will run off it's own PAX factor, just like they do in SK1/SK2.

RT classes are already in our computer because of the Super Regional. They currently have a street tire index of .980 just like the SK classes for use in overall PAX. If someone thinks that number should be different, now is the time to bring it up.

Within that, every car will run off it's own PAX factor, just like they do in SK1/SK2.

So the PAX factor is set for our 2013 season ?

Mako Koiwai wrote:

Within that, every car will run off it's own PAX factor, just like they do in SK1/SK2.

So the PAX factor is set for our 2013 season ?

No, Rick Ruth sets the PAX factors. He will do the 2013 ones sometime in November I think.

My original question gets answered!

Mako Koiwai wrote:My original question gets answered!

Perhaps that's because your original question was a little...ummm... vague

Mako Koiwai wrote:

That's up to CSCC to decide

So it hasn't been decided yet how to level the RT classes we're running next year instead of SK1/2 ?

Just trying to intelligently decide which car we might run in RT next year

We will use the same modifier that was used for the SK classes.

Which modifier will be used at National events ?

Mako Koiwai wrote:Which modifier will be used at National events ?

Ok - let's clear up some confusion here.

The modifier is only used by us to figure out the overall PAX for the event. It is not used to determine finishing positions within SK/RT. Thus, it is not important.

This applies to National events as well. It is not used, except to calculate the overall PAX for the whole event.

What is important to you, a SK/RT competitor, is the class PAX, which is determined by Rick Ruth in November. That is what calculates your finishing position within your class.

^^^ What Max says.

Mike Simanyi wrote:^^^ What Max says.

It's close enough....

We actually do use the .98 modifier to the base class PAX in the SK computations. Not that it makes any difference in the results. It just means we don't have to do a different calculation to compute the overall PAX results listing.

So, to be perfectly clear, for local events, your local PAX is the base class as determined by Rick Ruth, times 98%.
For national events, I have no idea if they use a street tire modifier. It doesn't matter unless you are looking to overall PAX performance.

Hmmm..this is SO confusing, maybe I'll just run ES. }:)

Not worried about the ST modifier ... just wondering about how say a BS and CS RTR car are going to stack up against each other

Mako Koiwai wrote:Not worried about the ST modifier ... just wondering about how say a BS and CS RTR car are going to stack up against each other

You can try and guess!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... cmc#gid=24" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good luck with that though...

Mako Koiwai wrote:Not worried about the ST modifier ... just wondering about how say a BS and CS RTR car are going to stack up against each other

Just compare SK1-BS and SK2-CS cars in any of our results. Of course rear drive cars only.