Cal Club Autocross Forums

Ok...someone who went to Nats has to spill. There's a highly obvious event in the results that's just a wee bit too comical not to notice. What happened?

-la

Shimmed valve springs discovered during impound inspection for top 5 finishers.

Um, no, there were only two DSQs in this class.

Larry Andrews wrote:Um, no, there were only two DSQs in this class.

I think what Bob means is that the top five were inspected, one car (two drivers) had an infraction.

OIC, tks KJ. Not the first time Bob and I have a hard time understanding each other's communication style, prolly not the last. Shame, that.

Second timers. Tsk tsk.

And, for what it's worth, what exactly is shimmed valve springs going to get you? A tiny bit more resistance to valve float so a higher redline can be programmed? <shrug>

Couldn't an equivalent dimensional change be machined in fairly easily without leaving an obvious alteration? Might require custom valves or a welded/remachined head...but neither is that unusual in the real world.

Larry Andrews wrote:OIC, tks KJ. Not the first time Bob and I have a hard time understanding each other's communication style, prolly not the last. Shame, that.

Second timers. Tsk tsk.

And, for what it's worth, what exactly is shimmed valve springs going to get you? A tiny bit more resistance to valve float so a higher redline can be programmed? <shrug>

Couldn't an equivalent dimensional change be machined in fairly easily without leaving an obvious alteration? Might require custom valves or a welded/remachined head...but neither is that unusual in the real world.

I said during impound inspection; guess you missed the discussions about how at nationals and tours there would be mandatory inspections sans protests.

Story is that no new valve springs were available; old ones were a little short, so the engine builder shimmed them. One of the shims was badly damaged and readily visible. No performance gain.

... and no Ti parts?

Mako Koiwai wrote:... and no Ti parts?

That's the story despite someone who signed up as a member of SCCAforums on 9/20 and made two posts claiming there was more than the shims, a member of the protest committee says otherwise.

Was it just a coincident that they decided to open up STS valve covers ... or was someone tipped off I wonder?

Mako Koiwai wrote:Was it just a coincident that they decided to open up STS valve covers ... or was someone tipped off I wonder?

On Sunday the SEB finalized a list of spot checks and classes and passed it on to the chief of impound. Completely random, and disappointing, that the checks turned up anything. No one was tipped off and none of the classes chosen were in response to any rumors, it was completely random selection. We looked at the run order and tried to pick one class in each heat.

Expect to continue to see these types of checks in years to come.

btw, CSP, STS2L, AS, FS, CS and others also had spot checks - all of which turned out fine.

The results book will include a copy of any/all protest committee findings for all issues. Anything you hear about the Hollis car beyond the shims is just a rumor.

Gang,

Just to stop the speculation, we on the STAC were told that the former "impound inspections" that used to apply were being reinstated. If I recall correctly, Andy himself was an advocate of this, explaining to all of us on the conference call that Nationals competitors used to be told to bring a new head gasket with them in case they had to pull the head for physical inspection.

A number of classes saw the top five cars pulled in for these "Stage 2" impounds. CSP was tested for bore, stroke and compression ratio (with an elaborate piece of hardware that was pretty cool). STS2L had to pull their axles so the differential could be inspected to ensure they weren't using torsen-based differentials. I believe STS was being checked for camshaft violations.

The tests were varied, and on the STAC we were neither asked which tests we'd like to see performed, nor told what the plan was, so the integrity of the tests was top notch.

Andy knew the higher-scrutiny tests were coming. I am convinced he did *not* knowingly bring an illegal car, and when he saw the impound results he stepped up in public - at the awards ceremony - and did the right thing, despite the difficulty.

I am one of the SCCA members who applaud his action.

Mike

Jason Isley BS RX8 wrote: btw, CSP, STS2L, AS, FS, CS and others also had spot checks - all of which turned out fine.

Except for poor Bill "Low Compression" Schenker

Aaron Goldsmith wrote:

Jason Isley BS RX8 wrote: btw, CSP, STS2L, AS, FS, CS and others also had spot checks - all of which turned out fine.

Except for poor Bill "Low Compression" Schenker

Isn't that what Viagra's for??

I'll be at the Laff Factory on Sunset on Friday
Catching a Rising Star on Saturday
The Comedy Store on Sunday. Thank you thank you!!

Jason Isley BS RX8 wrote:

Mako Koiwai wrote:Was it just a coincident that they decided to open up STS valve covers ... or was someone tipped off I wonder?

On Sunday the SEB finalized a list of spot checks and classes and passed it on to the chief of impound. Completely random, and disappointing, that the checks turned up anything. No one was tipped off and none of the classes chosen were in response to any rumors, it was completely random selection. We looked at the run order and tried to pick one class in each heat.

Expect to continue to see these types of checks in years to come.

btw, CSP, STS2L, AS, FS, CS and others also had spot checks - all of which turned out fine.

The results book will include a copy of any/all protest committee findings for all issues. Anything you hear about the Hollis car beyond the shims is just a rumor.

Good thing they didn't pick BS for valve inspections.

Pull Axles !? Ug ... are there people to help do these things. I know you're suppose to have a shop manual with you ... but don't some of these things require special tools ?

Mako Koiwai wrote:Pull Axles !? Ug ... are there people to help do these things. I know you're suppose to have a shop manual with you ... but don't some of these things require special tools ?

pretty sure the BFH fits the bill of numerous special tools..

Mako Koiwai wrote:Pull Axles !? Ug ... are there people to help do these things. I know you're suppose to have a shop manual with you ... but don't some of these things require special tools ?

You're supposed to have your own tools and you are responsible for doing the work yourself, but I'm confident your fellow competitors would step up to help if you weren't prepared and capable of doing the work. I watched that happen as James Wilson gathered volunteers to help one of the STS2L competitors who was 6 months pregnant.

I honestly don't know what I'd do on my BMW if they told me I'd have to pull my head though. It requires over $1,000 in tools to do that job and it's not remotely close to being a 60 minute operation. For all I know it could easily take 6-8 hours. I do know that if you don't have the right tools the camshafts *will* be ruined in the process. Hopefully the tools and tests available to the SCCA eliminate that particular need.

Mike

Mako Koiwai wrote:Pull Axles !? Ug ... are there people to help do these things. I know you're suppose to have a shop manual with you ... but don't some of these things require special tools ?

You know you are supposed to have a shop manual... But somehow 3 of 5 CSP drivers did not have one. It was fun telling the CSP Champ he better find one or he was going to get a DQ, Peters is so easy to get fired up. Luckily for CSP, the CS guys do have the required documentation. What Peters and the rest of them did not know was we had the specs for the items that were being checked. Part of the process was to educate people so hopefully next time they have a shop manual.

Ian Baker had his STS2 CRX axle out in ten minutes, and then went on to help his competitors pull theirs. None of the checks that were done are what I would call a big deal, all could be done in under 30 minutes if you had clue - sorry but if you built a SP/ST or anything other than a stock class car and can't work on it you are in the wrong class. Also none of the checks required any parts to be replaced (gaskets etc) when you were done. You might almost think it was planned that way. ;)

Mike Simanyi wrote: I honestly don't know what I'd do on my BMW if they told me I'd have to pull my head though. It requires over $1,000 in tools to do that job and it's not remotely close to being a 60 minute operation. For all I know it could easily take 6-8 hours. I do know that if you don't have the right tools the camshafts *will* be ruined in the process. Hopefully the tools and tests available to the SCCA eliminate that particular need.

Mike

Doug has access to every tool in the SCCA ProRacing trailer. Anything that can be checked at a World Challenge race can be done at the Runoffs or Solo natls.

You can find it ironic or fitting or whatever, but I'm convinced Andy was unaware of the non-factory setup and there was no intent to cheat. I don't know how Andy could handled it any better.

Lots of volunteers in impound to help with tools and work. Seemed to work very well. Andy seemed to welcome the inspections.

In drag racing even at the sportsman level teardowns were extensive. They'd say give us the passenger side cylinder head and the number 7 piston and rod assembly or something equally as painful to provide.

I've had to help guys pull a CR125 crank at kart races. Takes about two hours and wastes >$100 in bearings and gaskets in stock class where the crank sometimes can't be slip-fit to the main bearings.

Glad to see that all's well that ends well and honestly it's quite sad to see that something so pathetic wound up being at root of this situation. I seriously doubt that anyone could have predicted that outcome, and I'm a bit embarrassed at starting the thread.

-la