STS Questions

[Kurt Rahn]

I'm thinking seriously about buying an 89 CRX si and prepping it for STS2 (or whatever they end up calling it in the future). As I've done some research into what the rules allow, I've run into a few questions I'm hoping someone can answer:

1) I'm a little confused about replacement cats. Reading 14.10.E.1 ("Replacements must be certified for use in that vehicle application by the manufacturer."), are they talking about the auto manufacturer, or the manufacturer of the new cat?

2) Reading 14.10.G ("Any mechanical shift linkage may be used."), does that mean you can install a short shift kit?

3) Can you run coilovers, or do you have to get separate shocks and springs? Reading 14.5.B ("Any shock absorbers may be used.") it sounds like it's okay, but reading 14.8.A ("Springs must be of the same type as the original.") it gets a little ambiguous.

4) Since a/c was an option in 1989, can I remove the a/c? I saw the new rule in this month's FasTrack (Item 10: Remove 14.1.B, the allowance for removal of non-optional A/C components.) changing it so cars that originally came with a/c standard can't remove it, but it looks like if it was an option, removal is cool.

[Mike Simanyi]

I'm thinking seriously about buying an 89 CRX si and prepping it for STS2 (or whatever they end up calling it in the future). As I've done some research into what the rules allow, I've run into a few questions I'm hoping someone can answer:

1) I'm a little confused about replacement cats. Reading 14.10.E.1 ("Replacements must be certified for use in that vehicle application by the manufacturer."), are they talking about the auto manufacturer, or the manufacturer of the new cat?

The manufacturer of the replacement cat must have CARB or EPA approval of that cat, for use on the car. A CARB or EPA number will be stamped on the casing of the cat. Direct fit cats obviously will be certified for the specific car and are your safest bet. High-performance cats that meet EPA or CARB approval are legal.

2) Reading 14.10.G ("Any mechanical shift linkage may be used."), does that mean you can install a short shift kit?

Yes.

3) Can you run coilovers, or do you have to get separate shocks and springs? Reading 14.5.B ("Any shock absorbers may be used.") it sounds like it's okay, but reading 14.8.A ("Springs must be of the same type as the original.") it gets a little ambiguous.

Yes, any shocks and springs of the same type. For example, you can't substitute coil springs for torsion bars.

4) Since a/c was an option in 1989, can I remove the a/c? I saw the new rule in this month's FasTrack (Item 10: Remove 14.1.B, the allowance for removal of non-optional A/C components.) changing it so cars that originally came with a/c standard can't remove it, but it looks like if it was an option, removal is cool.

You are correct. If it wasn't standard from the factory on your model, you may remove it. This essentially follows the Stock rules.

Mike

[Bill Schenker]

Dude! What's with you BBM (Big Boned Men)? You need horsepower!

[Kurt Rahn]

Thanks, Mike. You're the man with all the answers! BTW, thanks for the voicemail last week.

[Kurt Rahn]

Dude! What's with you BBM (Big Boned Men)? You need horsepower!

Let's be frank...it's not the bones, it's the beer belly

I'd love to get a Corvette or something similar that handles well and has the power/torque to negate my built-in weight disadvantage, but I just can't swing it for now.

[Steve Ekstrand]

I got your email Kurt, but I can't access email til tonight. Post it here or in a private message if you like.

My Thermal R&D cat for the EF is actually CA legal, which is nice if you want to get it smogged here.

I got my Koni SPSS3 rebound adjustable and shortened shocks for $965 to my door. Add money for coilover sleeves and springs. I wouldn't mess around with anything less than that for shocks and I'd make it you first mod.

The DC Sports header often turns up on ebay or craigslist cheap. Tom Smith got a killer deal on his.

I got the Kirkey seats at Summit
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Also used the kirkey aluminum brackets on top of modified stock sliders. Just an hour or two of grinder, wheel of death, and drill press work.
You also need the covers for the seats.

You should get a CARB exempt intake if you want to drive the car on the street. The walmart lawnmower/quad battery works really well for the money.

I have the energy suspension bushings through out except for the Mugen trailing arm bushing and prothane motor mounts. You can wait on all that.
I have the HF front bar and the Suspension Techniques rear bar. You can run no front bar at all.

I have the Skunk2 front arms and rear locators. The rears are needed and cheap ones are available. After I bent one up, I got the skunks. You don't need the front camber especially in a street driven car. And my set has cost me more grief than anything else. I would not use that part again.

I have all four strut bar braces, you can do without them for now. Maybe forever. Some feel they just add weight.

Jeff ran the stock exhaust and just took the muffler off. It was a quick and easy way to go. I don't drive on the street so I just use a short 2.25" pipe I got at Summit.

Lot of short shifters out there. The cheapest ones do break if Kyle drives your car.

You need a socketed ECU (an easy mod to the right ECU) and some time with a guy like Eric Hernandez to tune the car and raise the rev limiter a little bit. We tuned our car on the street, during practice starts at the El Toro Pro and at practices. Still haven't dyno'd it.

The Unorthodox crank pulley is nice. Sometimes you can find it on ebay or craigs. I didn't have one til Nationals though and I doubt power was my problem all year.

Fresh hubs are a good thing. I changed out the lugs to special short ARP's.

I'd call up Edgeracing and get a set of falken Hanabi 15x7's and full tread 195-50-15 Bridgestones re-01's. They mount and balance free and include lugs. The wheels are under 10lbs and run about $92 a piece. You cannot beat those until you get to $1200 sets of used SSR's.

[Kurt Rahn]

I'd call up Edgeracing and get a set of falken Hanabi 15x7's and full tread 195-50-15 Bridgestones re-01's.

Thanks, Steve. You really think 7" rims and 195 tires are sufficient, when 7.5" and 225 are allowable? Also, what's the deal with the hip new thing: 17" rims on the front and 15" on the back. I suppose if you ran a wider rim/tire in front it'd help, but it seems a little goofy to me.

[Steve Ekstrand]

The 195's worked for all but 1 guy in the trophies in STS/STS2???
And the 15x7 may actually be better for the 195.

The combo I suggested is what Stephen runs and if you haven't noticed... He's decently quick....

My combo cost a whole lot more money, hasn't proven to be any faster.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Trust me.... You do not want to run the 17" dunlops.

[Jason Flores]

Trust me.... You do not want to run the 17" dunlops.

Ill second the motion of no 17's on civic. and on 7 inch rims the 195's are just fine and the current std till otherwise discovered

I am the builder responsible for the Allstar civic suspension and the setup we use is an old proven formula with an experienced driver, driving the spit out of the car. Remember that the setup for the CRX is a bit diffent spring wise then our civics so head over to sccafourms and lurk over there to see if you can find out what rate to run...

Also Chris @ RedShift Motorsports is a great guy and will help with advise on ur crx setup as well.

As far as driving, go find that Yeoh guy, he taught me all I know.

[Kurt Rahn]

Thanks Jason!

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Chris @ RedShift Motorsports

Chris Shennefield, PSCC member and FOC, Friend of Curt -- Luther that is.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Chris is extremely helpful and willing to share.

I'd probably start with 600F 500R with no front bar on the CRX. I wonder if Avard knows what Tim Herron runs or would ask for you.

The dunlop thing is complicated. But in your case all the variables steer you clearly away from the go and towards the no go....

[Kurt Rahn]

The dunlop thing is complicated. But in your case all the variables steer you clearly away from the go and towards the no go

I'm intrigued now. I'm not an engineer by any stretch, but why the HaterAde on the Dunlops?

[Michael Heinitz]

Why 1989 ?

Let me know if you find a decent '88.

[David Avard]

The dunlop thing is complicated. But in your case all the variables steer you clearly away from the go and towards the no go

I'm intrigued now. I'm not an engineer by any stretch, but why the HaterAde on the Dunlops?

I think Steve is concerned about rolling diameter and weight. The 215/40-17 Dunlops are an inch or so taller and 3 lbs heavier than the Stones, and with the extra weight of a 17 x 7.5 wheel (min. 14 lbs), you are probably at 10 lbs extra per corner, which is going to hurt your performance. McCormick ran those because they were faster than the Kumho MX's, and he (likely) couldn't run Bridgestones or Toyos.

From what I've heard, they also wear at least twice as fast as the Stones, especially when shaved.

No one has yet seen the 225/45-15 Toyo R1R, and it might be fast, or it might not. And 15 x 7.5 rims are either about 13 lbs, or ridiculously expensive (<10 lbs SSRs can run $1300/set used).

Tim Herron runs something like 450/500 F/R (IIRC), no front bar, and the ASR tubular rear bar (32mm with 4.5mm wall), which runs $510 or so.

Decent (unmolested) '88's are hard to find. Mike King apparently knocked off an old man who was the original owner of his garage-kept, low-mileage '88.

[Kurt Rahn]

Actually, this one's an 89. Not low mileage by any stretch, but cheap and pretty much unmolested by tuners.

[Jason Flores]

Actually, this one's an 89. Not low mileage by any stretch, but cheap and pretty much unmolested by tuners.

If you need someone to "freshen" up that motor let me know...we have friends associated with the Allstar Team that can take care of it to the letter of the law...

[Steve Ekstrand]

Just make sure he understands that .25mm is not the same thing as 25 thousandths. And just because it has a Honda part number doesn't necessarily make it legal. SCCA ST rules are full of gotchas.

[Jason Flores]

Just make sure he understands that .25mm is not the same thing as 25 thousandths. And just because it has a Honda part number doesn't necessarily make it legal. SCCA ST rules are full of gotchas.

This is for sure!!!

Also Kurt ull have all of ur local STS hard-asses that will tech you car for legality at every event!!!

[Kurt Rahn]

Also Kurt ull have all of ur local STS hard-asses that will tech you car for legality at every event!!!

Too true, and I appreciate all the help -- and anticipated future help -- you guys have given me. And just think, even if I get the car up to snuff and actually learn how to drive it, I'll never be a competitive threat to you, so you can feel free to just tell me all your secrets

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Just make sure he understands that .25mm is not the same thing as 25 thousandths. And just because it has a Honda part number doesn't necessarily make it legal. SCCA ST rules are full of gotchas.

Or use of shims under sagging valve springs. ;)

[Kurt Rahn]

D'oh!

[Kurt Rahn]

Aaaaaaaaarg! "My" CRX got sold out from under me! Oh well, at least I've already done a lot of research and I've softened the wife up for the next one that comes along.

[Sebastian Rios]

Is an '87 OK?
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