Guns don't kill people, stupid adults kill people

[George Schilling]

George, freak or not, certain kinds of accidents carry criminal penalties. There's nothing new or lefty about that. It was part of English Common Law before our independence.

I find that unfortunate. The people involved will have to live with the consequences of this accident for the rest of their lives. They have lost a son. the instructor will be traumatized. Just the thought of it makes me weep. If it's about justice, it has already been doled out. It's funny Bob, but I bet there will be a call for someone to be prosecuted. When an accident like this happens, people of the left want further punishment, yet when it comes to murders and other violence where the crime is deliberate, the left wants understanding for the perp. I don't get it. Excuse Bill Ayers, but punish the grieving parents.

[Bill Schenker]

G*d! I'm starting to get a little hot here! It's against every fiber of my liberal soul, but I'm actually getting a little aroused here...







(Sorry, didn't see George's last post...meant all the caliber stuff.)

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Were I buying a handgun for self-defense, I'd probably go .40 and maybe frangeable bullets. Still, the best home defense weapon is a Remington pump-action. The unmistakable sound is enough to scare the less foolish away.

I have 9mm cause they were cheap. Sig P6 > Taurus PT92AF fwiw. But I also have a Monkey Wards brand named Mossberg 500 loaded with OObuck alternating with 1oz slug. If the buck doesn't stop them, the slug will.

That's how I'd load a scatter gun. My brother has Mossberg 18 guage, or used to.

[Larry Andrews]

George, I hate to say this but is it possible for you to write anything besides polemic missives describing the sad fate of Republicans at the hands of the evildoing leeburahls.

I really like you buddy, but this is beyond stale. How's 'bout something about cars or whatever?

[Earl Merz]

G*d! I'm starting to get a little hot here! It's against every fiber of my liberal soul, but I'm actually getting a little aroused here...

Bill, all you have to do is give me a holler. I'll take you out to the secret shooting grounds and show you how harmless these evil looking objects really are. Heck, forget the .22LR, .225/5.56, and the 7.62x39.... I'd even let you fire off a few 7.62x54R and 12ga slugs(although both of them have a good chance of knocking you over ).

[Ron Tsumura]

Bill, all you have to do is give me a holler. I'll take you out to the secret shooting grounds and show you how harmless these evil looking objects really are. Heck, forget the .22LR, .225/5.56, and the 7.62x39.... I'd even let you fire off a few 7.62x54R and 12ga slugs(although both of them have a good chance of knocking you over ).

Hey Earl,

Just a small correction. The 5.56 mm round is equivalent to the .223 Remington.
p.s. another firearm on the "assault weapons" list is the bolt action .50 BMG.

[John Coffey]

Still, the best home defense weapon is a Remington pump-action. The unmistakable sound is enough to scare the less foolish away.

Actually, its not very good at home defense unless you're taking a defensive position (behind the bed after calling 911). The legal length pump action shotguns require the shooter to lift the barrel up to clear the walls when turning around in a normal hallway. It will also blow out your eardrums if shot in a hallway or a small room with the windows closed. Then there's the question of where all that 00 shot goes - drywall doesn't slow it down at all. A handgun is generally better for home defense, at least that's my opinion after a few years of training and competitive shooting.

[George Schilling]

George, I hate to say this but is it possible for you to write anything besides polemic missives describing the sad fate of Republicans at the hands of the evildoing leeburahls.

I really like you buddy, but this is beyond stale. How's 'bout something about cars or whatever?

Just skip over anything I write Larry. Doesn't bother me in the least.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Still, the best home defense weapon is a Remington pump-action. The unmistakable sound is enough to scare the less foolish away.

Actually, its not very good at home defense unless you're taking a defensive position (behind the bed after calling 911). The legal length pump action shotguns require the shooter to lift the barrel up to clear the walls when turning around in a normal hallway. It will also blow out your eardrums if shot in a hallway or a small room with the windows closed. Then there's the question of where all that 00 shot goes - drywall doesn't slow it down at all. A handgun is generally better for home defense, at least that's my opinion after a few years of training and competitive shooting.

I base my choice on the opinion of the head of Chicago PD's robbery division. Law says barrel must be 18" breach to tip, it doesn't say anything about modifying the stock. And, yeah it's loud, but so's a pistol firing .45 ACP. Over penetration is going to happen with typical handgun ammo also. Glasers will go through drywall, but won't always stop the perp. It's most effective aimed at the stomach, but that will likely kill the person on the spot.

[Bob Pl]

Bill is right: we should ban stupid adults.

Headfirst into the woodchipper is roughly the appropriate level of sensitivity to the pain they might suffer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvGzeQT1 ... re=related

Now, that's an appropriate use of dangerous technology!

Some interesting youtube vid's. I was not aware of the chainsaw fetish.

[Bob Pl]

Bill, all you have to do is give me a holler. I'll take you out to the secret shooting grounds and show you how harmless these evil looking objects really are. Heck, forget the .22LR, .225/5.56, and the 7.62x39.... I'd even let you fire off a few 7.62x54R and 12ga slugs(although both of them have a good chance of knocking you over ).

Hey Earl,

Just a small correction. The 5.56 mm round is equivalent to the .223 Remington.
p.s. another firearm on the "assault weapons" list is the bolt action .50 BMG.

I will never forgive the Governator for signing that bit of crap legislation.

Number of crimes committeded statewide (maybe nationwide) using a .50 BMG firearm, oh yeah ZERO.
That legislation really "targets" a runaway problem.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Bill, all you have to do is give me a holler. I'll take you out to the secret shooting grounds and show you how harmless these evil looking objects really are. Heck, forget the .22LR, .225/5.56, and the 7.62x39.... I'd even let you fire off a few 7.62x54R and 12ga slugs(although both of them have a good chance of knocking you over ).

Hey Earl,

Just a small correction. The 5.56 mm round is equivalent to the .223 Remington.
p.s. another firearm on the "assault weapons" list is the bolt action .50 BMG.

I will never forgive the Governator for signing that bit of crap legislation.

Number of crimes committeded statewide (maybe nationwide) using a .50 BMG firearm, oh yeah ZERO.
That legislation really "targets" a runaway problem.

Not quite zero, but very few; from Wikipedia:

Bill AB50 in California, passed in 2004, known as the .50 Caliber BMG Regulation Act of 2004 classifies all .50 BMG rifles of any action type as assault weapons, which are illegal to import into the state or transfer to any but a state agency or dealer licensed to purchase them. The bill's sponsor, California Assemblyman Paul Koretz, claimed that the .50 BMG "would be an ideal choice for use in an act of terrorism."

However, .50 BMG caliber rifles have lengths usually between four and five feet (1.2-1.5 meters) and weights from 20 to 40 pounds (10-20 kg), making a large .50 caliber rifle similar in weight to an olympic sized barbell, sized similar to a pair of skis. This makes them unwieldy and difficult to conceal, and are a rarity in crime statistics. For example, the Violence Policy Center is only able to document 4 actual uses of .50 BMG rifles by criminals,[6] and only accounts for a total of 18 additional cases in which a .50 caliber rifle was recovered from the possession of a criminal without the gun having been used in a crime. The General Accounting Office prepared a report in 1999, in which it stated that the ATF had only received a total of 18 "traces" for 50 BMG rifles related to criminal activity for rifles made by the largest of 50 BMG manufacturers, Barrett..[7] Of these only one "trace" related to claimed actual use of a rifle, and deals with a highly controversial event itself, the Waco siege of the Branch Davidian ranch by the ATF and FBI.

After AB50 was passed, Barrett proceeded to cease sales and service of .50 BMG rifles to California law enforcement agencies. An official press release from the owner of Barrett Firearms can be found on the company's website, as follows: "The California legislature has banned the .50 BMG from the good citizens of the state of California, violating their rights and the constitution of our republic. Therefore, Barrett will not sell to or service any California government agencies."

In response to legal action against the .50 BMG in the United States and Europe, an alternative chambering was developed. The .510 DTC Europ uses the same bullet, but has slightly different case dimensions. .510 DTC cases can be made by fire-forming .50 BMG cases. The new round has almost identical ballistics, but because of the different dimensions, rifles chambered for .510 DTC cannot fire the .50 BMG, and therefore do not fall under many of the same legal prohibitions. Barrett offers a similar alternative, the .416 Barrett, which is based on a shortened .50 BMG case necked down to .416 caliber (10.3 mm).

Despite the otherwise strict firearms laws within the United Kingdom it is possible to own a .50 BMG rifle as a section 1 firearm.

[McMillan Tac-50 is bolt-action, weighs 26 lbs., holds five rounds and must be used with a bipod; no open sights, scope only. Credited with longest-distance kill in combat--1.5 miles, Afghanistan 2002 by a Canadian.]

[Earl Merz]

Hey Earl,

Just a small correction. The 5.56 mm round is equivalent to the .223 Remington.
p.s. another firearm on the "assault weapons" list is the bolt action .50 BMG.

Just going by what I was told by a few gunsmiths and dealers. Firing mil-surp 5.56Nato in a standard .223 chamberd rifle can possibly cause damage to the weapon or user. Due to the higher pressures the Nato round. I am by no means an expert. But my $400 AR-15 uses a 5.56Nato barrel. I'm covered any way I look at it. Even with the custom hand reloads my friend makes up. In another month or so, my friends custom .338 Lapua will be finished. Now that will be some serious fun.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Scary bunch of people in this forum.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Scary bunch of people in this forum.

"I'm worst ... nightmare! A black man with a gun and a badge! So, don't f with me. There's a new sheriff in town." E. Murphy

[Bill Schenker]

The REAL reason I want to ban assault rifles...

[John Coffey]

The REAL reason I want to ban assault rifles...

Just 'cuz she's a better shot (with a gun and in front of the camera) then you...

[Bob Beamesderfer]

The REAL reason I want to ban assault rifles...

Just 'cuz she's a better shot (with a gun and in front of the camera) then you...

Isn't she holding her shoulder a little low?

[Steve Ekstrand]

Lot of recoil with those laser target practice guns....

[Kevin Price]

The REAL reason I want to ban assault rifles...

Just 'cuz she's a better shot (with a gun and in front of the camera) then you...

Isn't she holding her shoulder a little low?

No, but she shouldn't have her finger on the trigger unless she's ready to shoot. Maybe she's about to draw a bead on the photographer?

[KJ Christopher]

The REAL reason I want to ban assault rifles...

Just 'cuz she's a better shot (with a gun and in front of the camera) then you...

Isn't she holding her shoulder a little low?

She appears to be looking at the gun, not sighting in on a target.

[Earl Merz]

I see what you're saying Bill... Because it's a republican doing that it's bad. But when a Democrat CCW holder pointed an AK-47 at a crowd with her finger on the trigger, with magazine in, and rifle in fire(not on safety) it's no big deal. I mean, it was an anti gun rally after all...

"Not so gun savy" adults line both sides of this debate. I was just surprised to find out that the anti-gun person had a CCW AND bad firearm handling practices.

[Steve Ekstrand]

I was just surprised to find out that the anti-gun person had a CCW AND bad firearm handling practices.

I'm sadly not surprised.... Look at algore's carbon footprint... The people who want to control our lives are too important to burdened by living under their public rulesets.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

I was just surprised to find out that the anti-gun person had a CCW AND bad firearm handling practices.

The people who want to control our lives are too important to burdened by living under their public rulesets.

I'm afraid that's a bi-partisan affliction. Those in power, regardless of ideology, have propensity for looking out for No. 1 AND have advantages, deserved or earned or not, that most of do not. It's been like that for centuries.

[John Coffey]

Those in power, regardless of ideology, have propensity for looking out for No. 1 AND have advantages, deserved or earned or not, that most of do not. It's been like that for centuries.

With one exception that I'm aware of: Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi. Its really sad that I can only think up one exception...

BTW... we missed it, Happy Gandhi Jayanti! Everybody sing:

रघुपित राघव राजाराम , पतित पावन सीताराम

सीताराम सीताराम, भज प्यारे तू सीताराम

ईश्वर अल्लाह तेरो नाम, सब को सन्मित दे भगवान