Entry List for 25th July El Toro Practice (CASOC)

[Jason Isley BS RX8]

All points noted... however, I think there is a little favoritism going on here. If I'm signed up for the Championship on Sunday, and I send in my check THE DAY that the event is posted, I should be getting into the practice. There's no way that my check wasn't in the first 10-20 received asides from whoever was to be in from the CASOC / FSAE. Maybe I'm being too practical, but it's pretty lame that just because someone else is going to nationals, I'm getting the bump.

I just dropped a GRIP of cash on my car doing mods to make it more competitive in my class. I was just about to buy a new set of rubber for it this week in addition to all that. So basically all the money that I've spent, and work I've done to my car is a bit of a waste ( at this point in time anyway ) because of people that have been around longer have precedence because they're going to nationals or are in the "clik" ??? Not really a good way to attract new members...

It honestly really makes me second guess about getting more serious about AX, and think more about just going to track days. If I can't even drive / test my car before a Championship, what's the point of me racing in it ? How can I even be remotely competitive in class without testing / putting in laps, if other people in my class are afforded that opportunity and I'm not ? Just doesn't make sense...

I would think that this region would try to get a little creative, and come up with more ideas and ways to accommodate a growth, not turn people away that are trying to get into AX and grow the region and the sport.

I'm not pissed, just confused on the logic.

I rarely ever attend a practice event... But I seem to remember the protocol being the hosting club can do registration however they want, lottery, dart board, bribes. Perhaps someone will correct me if this has changed (or I am just wrong), but I don't believe the hosting club has to allow anyone in that is not a member of that club - that is not what happen here, just making a point. Do the math on the attendance of a Championship VS Practice day, pretty easy to see a lot of people are not going to get in to an event that is capped at 100 cars.

If your attitude is to take your ball and go home because you did not get into a practice you are only hurting yourself. With the option for x-runs there is still plenty of seat time available on a Championship day.

[Steve Ekstrand]

though I can pretty much say there will once again be multiple practices later in the year that we'll have to advertise the crap out of to get full.

You just know we're going to see this.....

[Kurt Rahn]

I just dropped a GRIP of cash on my car doing mods to make it more competitive in my class. I was just about to buy a new set of rubber for it this week in addition to all that. So basically all the money that I've spent, and work I've done to my car is a bit of a waste ( at this point in time anyway ) because of people that have been around longer have precedence because they're going to nationals or are in the "clik" ??? Not really a good way to attract new members...

Brett, I understand your frustration, but please do understand also that your money spent on the car is not a waste. You will have the events for the rest of the year and also for the years to come. You also have access to track days if so interests you. Not a waste in my opinion.

You just happened to not be able to get in to a practice during the BUSIEST time of the season (ie. Nationals). As Christine pointed out, the practice is called "Nationals test and tune". It was not like CASOC did not inform the public about the "intent" or the 'purpose" (for lack of a better term) of their practice. Every club is allowed to put on a practice in whatever format they decide.

We cannot cater to every individual need, and it so happens that this time your needs were not met. There is always next time. No need to be so critical, especially when so many people have put in so much effort to make this event happen.

Agreed, Lily. A couple additional points. First, even though there are a ton of people who haven't been to nationals and don't have any immediate plans/aspirations to go (me included), it's the holy grail of our sport. It's the one time all year that the best of the best from across the country all get together to see who's #1. The competition is so intense that wins are often measured in the hundredths or even thousandths of a second, which means that everything has to come together perfectly to get a jacket. Having a car that's properly set up can make that hundredths of a second difference one way or the other. I've just come to terms with the fact that I'm probably not going to get into any July or August practices, and I feel fine with that because I know that people who are going to nationals absolutely need the setup work.

Second point, which someone made to me when I expressed frustration at not getting into a practice, is that you can get plenty of runs in and learn a ton on a champ day as well. In addition to your three competition runs, you can do X runs, instructor runs and fun runs (if they're offered). In addition, you can usually catch a ride-along when other people do their X runs, which can be extremely helpful as well.

[Brett King]

No need to be so critical, especially when so many people have put in so much effort to make this event happen.

Thanks for the reply Lily... I don't think I'm being critical by pointing out facts (from my end anyway). And I obviously know that I'm not the only person that didn't get in. I just wanted to bring it up instead of the typical "ah well" post and voice what I'm sure the other 49 newbies / not so newbies were thinking. One of my friends that kinda got me into AX doesn't participate much anymore for this very reason.

Aaron, I'm more than willing to participate and put in volunteering time, never said that I wasn't.

Jason, I'm pretty far from having the childish "taking my ball home " attitude... Try to not judge people so quick for questioning / observing the way things work. That's more childish than anything I wrote.

To make a long story short, I'm just bummed because I was really looking forward to driving the crap outta my car. Been waiting FOREVER it seems to put the things I've done to use... now I have to wait longer.

[Kurt Rahn]

To make a long story short, I'm just bummed because I was really looking forward to driving the crap outta my car. Been waiting FOREVER it seems to put the things I've done to use... now I have to wait longer.

If you're willing to drive a bit, the SD region is having a practice/champ on 8/1 and 8/2. I've never run down there, so I'm not sure how things work. You might not get into the practice for the same reason, but at least you could run a championship and get some more runs. Worth a shot. I feel your pain. WHen I go more than a month or so, I start jonesing badly. I'm dying right now!

[Jeff Shyu]

for pure test n tune purposes, aren't the BMW club and PCA auto-x better anyways (generally more runs)?

[Brett King]

Oh I'm jonesin' !!!!

Dropped 135 lbs out of my car with new Cobra seats / Schroth harnesses, some other stuff, and was going to order some new Advan AD 08's.... sigh.

AGGGHHH !!!

[Brett King]

for pure test n tune purposes, aren't the BMW club and PCA auto-x better anyways (generally more runs)?

I don't know about all that stuff... from what I've heard. I'm not too into the whole BMW / P-Car poser club thing

}:)

[Jeff Shyu]

just saying, that's a viable alternative. both clubs are decently active.

[Philip Strong]

+1 for SDR - they not only fill up later, their Champ events usually give you four runs. Here is a link - there are currently still openings for the August practice. Aside from a great group of people, there is always a decent lunch truck on site....

http://www.sdsolo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2075" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Rick Brown]

+1 for SDR - they not only fill up later, their Champ events usually give you four runs. Here is a link - there are currently still openings for the August practice. Aside from a great group of people, there is always a decent lunch truck on site....

http://www.sdsolo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2075" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Their events are essentially run the same as ours, and are even posted on our calendar. Tech/Reg closes at noon. A number of people run both series, especially when there are no conflicts. Big lot with elevation changes.

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

for pure test n tune purposes, aren't the BMW club and PCA auto-x better anyways (generally more runs)?

I don't know about all that stuff... from what I've heard. I'm not too into the whole BMW / P-Car poser club thing
}:)

WRONG! There's absolutely NOTHING poser about them. In fact several members of SCCA (Cal Club, San Diego) regions, are members of one or both BMWCCA, and PCA and are either students or instructors. And do not confuse "seat time" at a track, vs "seat time" at an auto-x. Because if you compare the cost/risk factor it's apples & oranges. And if your intent is to just get "seat time" then yes, track is for you. If your intent is to be a good autocrosser then auto-x is for you and those skills come in handy in case you get into a 'situation' at the track.

And my suggestion but it's too late since you already did it, is to leave your car BONE STOCK, drive it for a year, get better and better, and then mod the car piece by piece. What I did was give people like Tom Berry, Mike Simanyi, Steve O'Blenes or Ken Motonishi my bone stock car and get their lap time. Compare to mine. Difference? 3 seconds. After a few years....difference? 3/10ths of a second. Patience is all that I suggest to you Brett.

You have an opportunity to join BMWCCA and attend the autox down in SD. They allow you to get seat time, practice your driving, test/tune your car. Only difference is the courses are more "mini-road course" than true SCCA auto-x type of layout. And you'll have instructors and some may be SCCA ones too.

BMWCCA - San Diego Chapter

And you are with PSCC, but our event has passed, and there will be PLENTY more practices that the E-Board will have to beg, bribe people to attend and then we'll be wondering........"Hey....where were all those people screaming about not getting into practices back in July??"

[Steve Ekstrand]

You'd consider track days but not "poser" BMWCCA or PCA events???

Lot to learn.

[KJ Christopher]

Aaron, I'm more than willing to participate and put in volunteering time, never said that I wasn't.

To make a long story short, I'm just bummed because I was really looking forward to driving the crap outta my car. Been waiting FOREVER it seems to put the things I've done to use... now I have to wait longer.

Yeah, it’s a bummer. I haven't actually looked at the list to see how many people got in just because they were going to nationals. I don't think it is that many. Most (even of those going to nationals) get in because:
1) they belong to CASOC
2) they are a friend of a member of CASOC - get in through the guest clause
2a) they are very active in volunteering and running events - this tends to make them qualify very easily for the guest spots
3) were volunteers at the FSAE practice - we held several slots for them

It is great that you are willing to participate and put in volunteer time. We need more of that. But it works best if you force the issue and are around when the rest of us need help (on championship days - or the PSCC hosted events or bug eboard members (Rick Brown is your rep on the committee) for roles in eboard events). We generally don't remember people who hold their hands up on the forums. But the ones who regularly stay to help clean up, help set up course, help organize, help whatever, well they are fresh in the minds of those in charge of registration for practices. Not to say you haven't done that - it's just that I don't know. And if I don't, others probably don't as well. It takes time to establish yourself in one of those roles. But you'll find that we are very accommodating to adding people to those roles.

And Jason is correct - the practice events are solely at the discretion of the hosting club. Most have entries that are a hybrid of the first received checks and special picks. There are certain people/roles that have to be there and that will always impact the list. And, we are going out on a limb here with 100 entrants. We've had to redesign the process to make sure it will even work.

All said, sorry you didn't make it in. But that changes over time.

[Tin Bui]

You had to go to PSCC Tin.... There was a better option!

Steve is right


http://www.teamblewracing.com/

There should be a draft!

[Mako Koiwai]

Brett ... I think they're getting back at you for not letting them do runs in your "Shoe." Nothing like letting one of our Champs set a time in your car to show you what it's capable of. ... or as one of them told me at the Porsche AX on Sunday after riding with me ... "you're Ham Fisted!" That will make you face reality!

[Chuck Fowler]

as one of them told me at the Porsche AX on Sunday after riding with me ... "you're Ham Fisted!" That will make you face reality!

but not necessarily change your driving style

[Mako Koiwai]

Somewhere I remember that first and foremost, we're suppose to be having FUN! My idea of Fun isn't beating others, it's driving in the Eurasian Ham Fisted ("Schinken Faust") style.

[Andrew Bingham]

for pure test n tune purposes, aren't the BMW club and PCA auto-x better anyways (generally more runs)?

I don't know about all that stuff... from what I've heard. I'm not too into the whole BMW / P-Car poser club thing

}:)

The format of the Porsche Club events (at least as run by PCAOCR) is pretty awesome, and I'd say you're cheating yourself out of good seat time by not considering your own marquee club.

Like I said... We need more practices, your club voted AGAINST IT!!!

I'm betting a lot of folks voted for a championship because we have a chance of actually participating. Adding another practice would just result in not getting in....again...so what would be the point?

[Q V]

Woo hoo! I got in. At first, I was like "darn, I don't see my name", then I realized it was alphabetical by first name.

I'm coming back down from San Jose (on a summer vacation-school type thing for the month) for the weekend for this, then back up after the championship sunday, lol; this is going to be interesting.

Brett... things I've done when not getting into practices:

- @ the championship, show up for the novice course walk if you don't normally do so already - walk the course AT LEAST 2 times; even better, if you think you are beyond the novice course walk, find someone more experienced & ask to walk with them - seeing other people's perspective on each corner helps tons
- @ the championship, ask for an instructor run if you don't do so already - this is one of the MOST valuable things I have done to improve my driving over the years
- @ the championship, get X runs, like others have mentioned

- Come to the practice anyway, get ride-alongs - I always learn something regardless of who I ride w/ (national champ, newbie, fwd, rwd, awd)
- Run w/ another club, place, etc - I'm pretty sure the majority of people running the Porsche & BMWCCA clubs can show you a thing or two for autoxing
- Run a track event - seat time in different type of events only helps you improve your skills, why not
- Go gokarting

- fyi, if you are really jonsing (sp?) for some quick autoxing style, there's Adam's "Motorsports" Park in Riverside; Grip Tuesdays every week & every 2nd Saturday of the month. You can look it up on here or google. Not bad at all for what it is, and there are often a couple instructors from our autox there instructing - VERY HELPFUL!

[Marshall Grice]

You'd consider track days but not "poser" BMWCCA or PCA events???

Lot to learn.

I think some generous sarcasm has been missed here. IIRC, Brett is a long time PCA member....or is is POC? Either way he's pulling your leg.

[Brett King]

You'd consider track days but not "poser" BMWCCA or PCA events???

Lot to learn.

I think some generous sarcasm has been missed here. IIRC, Brett is a long time PCA member....or is is POC? Either way he's pulling your leg.

Exactly... hahaha I do like Steve's "in your face" stance tho ;)

Gio... You KNOW I was kidding right ??? hahahahaa Hence the }:)

Anyway guys, thanks for all the suggestions, I might have come off a little strong perhaps in bitching / whining about it which I really wasn't. Like I said... was just really looking forward to it.

Maybe I will come out on the Saturday anyway and get some rides and help out with course work, etc. Nice suggestion Quoc ;)

Damn... this mean's I gotta order some rubber now ! WHOOOO HOOOOO !!!!!

[Steve Ekstrand]

Exactly... hahaha I do like Steve's "in your face" stance tho ;)

Anytime!

I'm serious about the value of X runs. If it wasn't for the families desire and the kid karts, I probably wouldn't do any practices. As much as I try in a practice to put the same pressure on, I have a hard time. I typically do fairly well by the 12th run, but that doesn't help my competitiveness. Avard and Kalman are always mocking my "Champion of last runs on Saturday" status. Oh yeah and nice 6th place on Sunday.... The pacing and feel of X runs are just like competition runs. I work once, and run two hardcore sets. I put all the pressure I can on my Xruns, trying to set fast time of day for my class even if it means nothing, I try to simulate the pressure. I get a lot out of those 6 runs. And in San Diego that might be 8 runs!

I don't know how to solve the practice issues. Fairly fixed supply. Fairly fixed pricing. Demand far in excess. That doesn't work well. We've learned if you don't show "favoritism" then you lose your coreworkers and you end up worse with fewer events. If you got new ideas on how to solve our practice issues they'd be welcome. Off season, and often with our special double practice weekends, we end up not filling them. And at the height of summer here we're running every two weeks for a stretch. Tough to add events in the crunch time.

[Brett King]

Thanks Steve, I'll try think up some new idea's for it...

I think the most obvious one that would come to mind would be to make a "national only" practice once or twice before the nationals that didn't coincide with a local "championship" event. That way it would add extra seat time for those going to nationals and not mess with the people just trying to compete locally. We could get volunteers to come out and work the events to get a free practice ( or discounted practice ) for their next championship practice. I know I would be more than willing to do this...

That's really what kills me about it at the moment is more than the simple fact of just driving my car. I know I can do X-Runs, run at other events, etc. But that's really after the fact to some degree. I would like to practice before the event to get dialed / in the mindset for the next day. To be able to compete with Tadd in Novice for me / whoever else is practicing on Saturday with only doing 3 runs on Sunday ( in a completely differently prepared car for me in this case ) isn't too fair for those that can't practice. Anyone can argue with me about that, but it is reality at the end of the day.

I've done tons of different forms of racing ( Moto-X / BMX / ROAD / MTB Bikes ) over the years and I've never run into this type of situation with not being able to practice the course / test before the event, so it really seems odd to me.

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

Gio... You KNOW I was kidding right ??? hahahahaa Hence the }:)

Ah things get lost in translation and the "devil" smiley is misleading sometimes No problem. Just know you have other avenues of auto-x seat time available to you.