Low Entries for Solo School-Because?

[Lisa Severy]

Just curious. If anyone from the originally targeted group (those w/less than three years autocross experience) has any feedback as to why they didn't sign up or otherwise why the response has been underwhelming, I would be very interested to know. I have had so many individuals asking about the Solo School over the past year, I was expecting to have many more entries by now. As a result, we will be opening up the school to allow individuals with more experience, but who still want the coaching/instruction. Please check out the other thread and help get the word out! Thank you!

[Mike Kazmierczak]

I was hesitant to sign-up because of the cost.

[Matt Mikhail]

I really want to go but I can't justify spending so much in one month on Auto-X right now...

Maybe I'll have a change of heart (and wallet) in the next few days ;)

[Kurt Rahn]

The only hesitation I had was sending the entry form in, as I first read the entry rules to mean that there was a lottery and therefore no reason to rush. As soon as I found out otherwise, I sent in my check. I've heard so much about it, cost wasn't a hindrance to me at all. I paid more than $120 for Evo school (and will again), and way more than that for karting school.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Frankly, if a $150 for a weekend of school and practice that will completely transform your experience and skill level, is too much, then you cannot afford to autox at all. Just an small improvement would probably save you that much in tire abuse for just a couple of events. But if your finances are that on the edge, its insane to be doing autox or track days. You'll find yourself walking at some point.

[Matt Mikhail]

Frankly Steve, you don't know me or my finances and the latter is not your business, so I wouldn't go trying to tell me what I can and can't afford. Lisa asked why people aren't signing up - I'm putting out my thoughts and reasoning which are not for you to analyze or critique. If you are truly trying to get people to sign up for this and be apart of it I would switch off the abrasiveness and let people enjoy what this whole experience (Solo 2) has to offer - instead of creating an ultimatum.

[Randy Chase]

1. Since the school was only for newer people, I was thinking of entering my better looking co-driver (that would not be Robert P). She qualified. But then I would not be able to drive. I am rethinking this now that maybe I can enter too?

2. There seems to be a number of events in November/December.

Nov 8 Champ San Diego
Nov 14 School
Nov 15 Practice
Nov 21 Practice San Diego
Nov 22 San Diego
Nov 27 Practice ?
Nov 28 Ladies Day
Nov 29 Champ
Dec 6 Champ San Diego
Dec 12 Practice
Dec 13 Champ

[Randy Chase]

Frankly, if a $150 for a weekend of school and practice that will completely transform your experience and skill level, is too much, then you cannot afford to autox at all. Just an small improvement would probably save you that much in tire abuse for just a couple of events. But if your finances are that on the edge, its insane to be doing autox or track days. You'll find yourself walking at some point.

I think you have forgotten what it is like to have a budget and make sensible decisions. $150 is still a lot more than a normal entry fee.

[Jon Nishikuni]

Hi Lisa,
I mailed my app and check Monday AM so you should see it today or the next. Hopefully I can absorb what you guys teach me cuz I'm not the sharpest pencil in the bunch.
Thanks for getting us newbies to another level!!

Jon

[Mako Koiwai]

Karen will probably enter if she can specify Lisa as her Instructor - and we get another set of wheels w/ 710's. The A6's won't last the day.

[Theo O.]

Frankly, if a $150 for a weekend of school and practice that will completely transform your experience and skill level, is too much, then you cannot afford to autox at all. Just an small improvement would probably save you that much in tire abuse for just a couple of events. But if your finances are that on the edge, its insane to be doing autox or track days. You'll find yourself walking at some point.

Not cool Steve. Save that for the Political Paddock.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Frankly, if a $150 for a weekend of school and practice that will completely transform your experience and skill level, is too much, then you cannot afford to autox at all. Just an small improvement would probably save you that much in tire abuse for just a couple of events. But if your finances are that on the edge, its insane to be doing autox or track days. You'll find yourself walking at some point.

I think you have forgotten what it is like to have a budget and make sensible decisions. $150 is still a lot more than a normal entry fee.

It is??? $150 is for the ENTIRE weekend. It includes, a school with top instructor and multiple lesson areas, materials, lunch and on the second day a full practice.
If price is the sticking point, I don't think that person has the resources to be putting their car at risk.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Not cool Steve. Save that for the Political Paddock.

For the Political Paddock??? Get a grip.

[Marshall Grice]

for the record Steve won't be at the school so don't let the fear of meeting him scare you off.

[KJ Christopher]

Typical weekend:
$70 Practice
$30 Entry
$25 X-runs
$125 total

Seems very comparable to me. Maybe if more people see how close the $s are to a typical, full on entry weekend, we'll get better response? Heck, you get lunch and lots of time with world class level instructors & rationalizers, plus me.

[Bob Pl]

My 2 cents, since you asked.

People brand new to the sport do not have the knowledge, yet, to understand the value of the schools we put on. They almost certainly don't realize the HIGH LEVEL of instruction that they would get. They may or may not have a long term commitement to the sport & therefore only look at the price tag. See Randy's post about all the nov/dec events & add to that PCA & BMW & independent HPDE & etc. that is the competition for limited funds. SD BMW now allows 20 x (non bmw) cars per event to keep our numbers up. We had a full event last Sunday.

Plus people are out of work or underemployed, so there you go. Should not really be a surprise.

I wonder if we should (all organizations) try to renegotiate lot fees as many/most events are run on a smaller scale. Food for thought.

[Matt Mikhail]

KJ, I completely agree it's a good deal.

Steve, then perhaps you should be PM'ing everybody that hasn't signed up for why they aren't going to be attending. For the record, $150 plus $70 plus $20 for the month is ALOT different than just $70 and $20. I'm sorry if you don't understand that not everyone has so much disposable income.

[Randy Chase]

Frankly, if a $150 for a weekend of school and practice that will completely transform your experience and skill level, is too much, then you cannot afford to autox at all. Just an small improvement would probably save you that much in tire abuse for just a couple of events. But if your finances are that on the edge, its insane to be doing autox or track days. You'll find yourself walking at some point.

I think you have forgotten what it is like to have a budget and make sensible decisions. $150 is still a lot more than a normal entry fee.

It is??? $150 is for the ENTIRE weekend. It includes, a school with top instructor and multiple lesson areas, materials, lunch and on the second day a full practice.
If price is the sticking point, I don't think that person has the resources to be putting their car at risk.

This point is not about value. It can be the best value in the world. Totally worth it. That was not the issue.
The issue is the total amount which for some is going to be too much and in the big picture of where to allocate their dollars, will decide that $150 per driver for the weekend is too much. That is all. Some people can't afford an EVO school (also a good value and highly recommended) or even a normal practice day.

The point is, it seems a little smug to suggest those people should not be autocrossing at all.

[Steve Ekstrand]

For the record, $150 plus $70 plus $20 for the month is ALOT different than just $70 and $20. I'm sorry if you don't understand that not everyone has so much disposable income.

Plus $70 and $20??? I'm not sure I understand.

We get busy schedules at different points through the year and choices have to made whether its money or time or tire budgeting or wear and tear on the car. The school day only is $120, that I would think would be the priority day in the month for most non-national, non-points solo people. Long term it'll do the most good. $150 is for the weekend with a full practice day Sunday. That's a huge value. It adds the practice for students for just $30. That's such a great value entry fee wise that I just skipped straight to the $150 option. $120 for a single local region day is high, but tough to do right for any less, I'm sure that day won't make money for the region. I wasn't involved in any of the decisions, but I suspect club reps had to agree that the region would probably lose money on the school. I'd suggest taking the school rather than the regular championship, though the region admins probably don't want me saying that.

I'm serious about the smug can't afford comments. Entry fees are NOT the big financial hit in this sport. If you're focusing on the entry fees, you're probably excluding the real costs of the sport and going in blind like that is not a good thing. If what you're really saying is that November is a crowded month with tons of solo opps and I can't do them all, then I understand. I certainly can't do them all. Maybe I can come up with the cash, but I don't have the time.

And don't get me started on people who complain about national event fees then have to drive to BFE, Arkansas because the lot is low priced and fees can stay low.... Do the math!

[Matt Mikhail]

Entry fees are NOT the big financial hit in this sport.

If you have a baseline of how much your spending on tires, fuel, whatever, you've still got a difference of $150 vs. whatever it was normally going to be for the month. I'm not going to argue over what's good for me, the fact is what me or anyone else wants to spend their money on is ultimately what will happen. There is no need to belittle anybody for not choosing to go.

Agree to disagree.

[Kurt Rahn]

I'm not in the greatest shape financially myself, but the school is something I'm willing to sacrifice other events to participate in. One look at the list of instructors says it all. Just my $.02.

[Jonathan Lugod]

i agree but for MOST people who want to be involved in some sort of racing. (mostly the tuner crowd). They see the $150 price and automatically have the point of view that a whole day at a real track would be more worth it to them. I see novice schools (as this was originally a novice school) as an INVITATION to get involved with the sport and learn the in's and out's. I have plenty of friends who enjoy the racing videos i post/show and ask me how to get into it.

Most of them turn away due to the price for 3 runs...Then i mention practices and how they are pre-registration only... then they get even more turned away... forget the fact i haven't mentioned SCCA membership fees as well. Of course this is coming from my own friends who too are broke college students trying to get a legal fix of driving excitement. The younger crowd is hard to please but we do need them to continue on our sport as we get older.

[Daryl Slawnikowski]

Entry list must have posted as I was writing. trying to see if I can get the White Scirocco running.

[Mako Koiwai]

Two fellows over at Mako's Miata (@ Ur Own Risk) Garage ... one novice says it's too expensive compared to the SD School ... the other 1st year driver says that for that price one shouldn't have to work?!

[Steve Ekstrand]

the other 1st year driver says that for that price one shouldn't have to work?!

Another group of clients I don't care to serve... Though I'd entertain a few higher priced practices with no work. Or a no work buy out option. Especially helpful on a practice day where you want to work on setup changes. Always thought it would be a good PFM fundraiser. But it would be expensive to maintain our level of worker coverage. The non-SCCA events that successfully do no work, are on small lots and go with very minimal coverage and often on a bike.