Moderator: Mike Simanyi
Kurt Rahn wrote: but a lot of people stop registering as soon as they fail to see their class in the signup list. I hope more people sign up.
It could also be that the only way to really find out that they're even running the classes at the nationals is through word of mouth. It isn't mentioned anywhere on the website. The only way I found out about it was through reading this forum.Jayson Woodruff wrote: Or could it be many of the SK commoners are not serious enough to want to run the tour/pro, and many of those that are want to run a classic class?
Jeff Stuart wrote:It could also be that the only way to really find out that they're even running the classes at the nationals is through word of mouth. It isn't mentioned anywhere on the website. The only way I found out about it was through reading this forum.Jayson Woodruff wrote: Or could it be many of the SK commoners are not serious enough to want to run the tour/pro, and many of those that are want to run a classic class?
That's a much bigger, fatter assumption.Jayson Woodruff wrote:Or could it be many of the SK commoners are not serious enough to want to run the tour/pro, and many of those that are want to run a classic class?
There are a ton of people who don't check this forum regualrly and more that don't use it at all.Jayson Woodruff wrote:Who locally doesn't find out about national events through this forum?
BZZZZT wrong answer.Jeff Stuart wrote:It could also be that the only way to really find out that they're even running the classes at the nationals is through word of mouth. It isn't mentioned anywhere on the website. The only way I found out about it was through reading this forum.Jayson Woodruff wrote: Or could it be many of the SK commoners are not serious enough to want to run the tour/pro, and many of those that are want to run a classic class?
quoted from the SCCA website under event information2010 San Diego National Tour
Qualcomm Stadium
Site Address: Qualcomm Stadium*9449 Friars Rd*San Diego, CA 92108
Entry Cap: 325
Staff Hotel: Holiday Inn* 3805 murphy Canyon Rd* San Diego, CA 92123*858-278-9300* Mention SCCA to get a rate of $109/night.
Site Restrictions: Sound limit is 93db@50'. This sound limit supercedes the sound limit listed in Appendix I of the 2010 Solo rules.
Sound Policy: AS of 3/8/10 please see the sound policy menu tab on the event web page.
RV Camping is allowed in the pit area. No hookups available. A trolley is available on site to go to meals, shopping, etc.
Local Classes: SK1 & SK2 will be allowed to run at this event. To register for these classes you will need to select AM as your class and leave a note to the registrar. You will appear in the AM entry list but will be placed in the correct local class at the event. Please call the national office if you have any questions - 800-770-2055.
It's not on the ProSolo event information page. I'm not going to the San Diego event so I never looked at the event information page.Keith Brown wrote: BZZZZT wrong answer.
That's a chicken and egg problem. If nobody shows up, its priority isn't going to increase.Kurt Rahn wrote:When you're treated like an afterthought at national events, it's not a huge surprise.
What do you think it says? I think it says that few of the people who enter those classes for local events are interested in the big national events.The fact that SK1 and SK2 are consistently some of the best subscribed classes at local events says it all.
I'd be interested to hear the logic behind that theory.John Stimson wrote:What do you think it says? I think it says that few of the people who enter those classes for local events are interested in the big national events.The fact that SK1 and SK2 are consistently some of the best subscribed classes at local events says it all.
What logic? If you only care about local events then you won't do National ones. If you DO care about National events in addition to local ones then you do them. Simple as that. Actions speak louder than words. So if all those SK1/SK2 competitors want to compete at Nationals they show it in numbers by signing up. It's not like they aren't aware of this for the ProSolo and/or National Tour events.Kurt Rahn wrote:I'd be interested to hear the logic behind that theory.John Stimson wrote:What do you think it says? I think it says that few of the people who enter those classes for local events are interested in the big national events.The fact that SK1 and SK2 are consistently some of the best subscribed classes at local events says it all.
So you're somehow incented to compete in national events even though to do so in a "real" class, you have to spend much more money on R comps? I watched Adrian kick ass in SK2 at the Pro last year and not get to compete in the challenge because SK2 is one of the black sheep. Not to disparage the effort to let us run. I appreciate all the effort made to make that possible.Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:What logic? If you only care about local events then you won't do National ones. If you DO care about National events in addition to local ones then you do them. Simple as that. Actions speak louder than words. So if all those SK1/SK2 competitors want to compete at Nationals they show it in numbers by signing up. It's not like they aren't aware of this for the ProSolo and/or National Tour events.Kurt Rahn wrote:I'd be interested to hear the logic behind that theory.
I submit that national SCCA events are in the same position. No one can take potential customers for granted. In this economy, how can you summarily leave out people who can't afford to buy r-comps? Don't we (meaning the SCCA) want to emerge from this crappy economy with as many shareholders as possible? What harm does it cause to let the folks who can't afford running on a season of r-comps to participate? Given that I'm not suggesting adding nine new SK/stock classes or forcing all stock classes to drive on "street" tires, I just don't understand the paranoia and defensiveness (not directed at you specifically, Gio) of the people that are so irrationally, and so vehementy against allowing an SK-type class at the national level. Please, someone enlighten me. What is the harm in letting us prove or disprove that there's a real demand? Again, I'll ask, if you don't have a dog in this fight, why do you even care?Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:... now, that we have declining membership and participation, we as the region have to adapt and fight for every dollar. Posting about other organizations events draws away from our events (even if there isn't a conflict). Because if someone decides on 1 event instead of ours because of their finances assuming no confict, then we lose them as potential member. We have to adapt to the times John.
AS 2 competitors registered for the SD tourJonathan Lugod wrote:yup, and it looks like only 7 guys in Sk2 want to run SK2 at the SD National Tour so far.
No one is treating anyone as a "black sheep". I'll lead by example........back when all BMW M3 drivers (E36 chassis) wanted a street tire class to play in, they had ZERO options. It was either B-Stock and get smoked by Mazda RX-8s, or make your car undriveable and turn it into a BSP car that had a better shot at competing against the Corvettes. So the ground swell became bigger, the noise became louder, and finally STU became a "supplemental" class that allowed certain cars that had no ST class to play in play. But we had to put our money were our mouth was. The minimum was 25 drivers to be consistent, for those 2-3yrs (2005-2007)Kurt Rahn wrote:because SK2 is one of the black sheep.
Let's say 25 drivers show up at the Tour and Pro here in the SoPac division. Okay....what about all the other regions in the other divisions? If they have 7 or less drivers that tells the SCCA National office that only in SoPac is SK1/SK2 a 'fad', and that the rest of the country isn't really into it. Again...actions speak louder than words.Kurt Rahn wrote:I just don't understand the paranoia and defensiveness (not directed at you specifically, Gio) of the people that are so irrationally, and so vehementy against allowing an SK-type class at the national level. Please, someone enlighten me. What is the harm in letting us prove or disprove that there's a real demand?
where is the 15+ im used to seing locally. Especially the SD region. Looks like some look at the $ of entry and think its too much for an autox weekend.Kurt Rahn wrote:Jonathan Lugod wrote:yup, and it looks like only 7 guys in Sk2 want to run SK2 at the SD National Tour so far.
Your point being...?
If that's what happens then that's what happens. All Kurt is saying is try it for real for a year (not just as a local specialty class), and if it doesn't work then you can say "I told you so" and we can move on.Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:Let's say 25 drivers show up at the Tour and Pro here in the SoPac division. Okay....what about all the other regions in the other divisions? If they have 7 or less drivers that tells the SCCA National office that only in SoPac is SK1/SK2 a 'fad', and that the rest of the country isn't really into. Again...actions speak louder than words.Kurt Rahn wrote:I just don't understand the paranoia and defensiveness (not directed at you specifically, Gio) of the people that are so irrationally, and so vehementy against allowing an SK-type class at the national level. Please, someone enlighten me. What is the harm in letting us prove or disprove that there's a real demand?
Since I only started last November and wasn't around in 2006-2008, can you explain what it meant to be a supplemental class in the way that STU was? Did that mean it was offered at every national event, or just here in SoCal?Giovanni Jaramillo wrote: So the ground swell became bigger, the noise became louder, and finally STU became a "supplemental" class that allowed certain cars that had no ST class to play in play
class dilution, possibly to the point of falling under section 4.9. or if your argument is that you want to just get rid of rcomps in stock class then you have an even stronger rejection of street tires.Kurt Rahn wrote: I just don't understand the paranoia and defensiveness (not directed at you specifically, Gio) of the people that are so irrationally, and so vehementy against allowing an SK-type class at the national level. Please, someone enlighten me.
reference STR, which is currently going through the same process.Jeff Stuart wrote:Since I only started last November and wasn't around in 2006-2008, can you explain what it meant to be a supplemental class in the way that STU was? Did that mean it was offered at every national event, or just here in SoCal?Giovanni Jaramillo wrote: So the ground swell became bigger, the noise became louder, and finally STU became a "supplemental" class that allowed certain cars that had no ST class to play in play
I'll add a little more to Marshall's answer. Basically, the class is treated just like a National Class except......there is no championship jacket, and no recognition in the history books of the winner of that class during it's supplemental status. And yes it is offered at every national tour/pro solo so that the national office can see the attendance throughout the probabationary period of 2yrs or so to decide whether or not this supplemental class becomes a national class.Jeff Stuart wrote:can you explain what it meant to be a supplemental class in the way that STU was? Did that mean it was offered at every national event, or just here in SoCal?
Also there's this perception that we (i.e. Cal Club or San Diego) regions aren't trying it for real. They are....you can sign up as a specialty class. If you want it to be a supplemental class.........e-mail the Solo Events Board at seb@scca.com. And that means ALL the SK1/SK2 drivers that want to compete at the National level.Jeff Stuart wrote:If that's what happens then that's what happens. All Kurt is saying is try it for real for a year (not just as a local specialty class), and if it doesn't work then you can say "I told you so" and we can move on.Giovanni Jaramillo wrote:Let's say 25 drivers show up at the Tour and Pro here in the SoPac division. Okay....what about all the other regions in the other divisions? If they have 7 or less drivers that tells the SCCA National office that only in SoPac is SK1/SK2 a 'fad', and that the rest of the country isn't really into. Again...actions speak louder than words.Kurt Rahn wrote:I just don't understand the paranoia and defensiveness (not directed at you specifically, Gio) of the people that are so irrationally, and so vehementy against allowing an SK-type class at the national level. Please, someone enlighten me. What is the harm in letting us prove or disprove that there's a real demand?
I want be fully prepped to the ruleset without doing any prep work.Steve Ekstrand wrote:It seems more like wanting to go racing without fully prepping to the ruleset.
It's not for real until it's nationally recognized (available at all events)Giovanni Jaramillo wrote: Also there's this perception that we (i.e. Cal Club or San Diego) regions aren't trying it for real. They are....you can sign up as a specialty class.
I already wrote my email. Hopefully we'll see SK classes with the same status as the current STR class, because that's what needs to happen before you can read into the attendance numbers at events.Giovanni Jaramillo wrote: If you want it to be a supplemental class.........e-mail the Solo Events Board at seb@scca.com.
Wrong....it's real in Cal Club (Pro) and San Diego (Tour)Jeff Stuart wrote:It's not for real until it's nationally recognized (available at all events)Giovanni Jaramillo wrote: Also there's this perception that we (i.e. Cal Club or San Diego) regions aren't trying it for real. They are....you can sign up as a specialty class.
Before you can run (National status), you must walk (Supplemental status), but before you can even walk, you must crawl (specialty class).Jeff Stuart wrote:I already wrote my email. Hopefully we'll see SK classes with the same status as the current STR class, because that's what needs to happen before you can read into the attendance numbers at events.Giovanni Jaramillo wrote: If you want it to be a supplemental class.........e-mail the Solo Events Board at seb@scca.com.
