It pays to know the law

[George Schilling]

This is a narrative from a traffic stop on my way to work this morning.

"Do you a drivers' license sir?"

"What's the problem officer?"

"Do you know how fast you were going?" (as I'm handing over my license)

"I have no clue. I never looked."

"You were doing 60."

"So you intend to write me for a 22350. Can you tell me what part of that statute I violated?"

"You were doing 60. The speed limit is 40".

"Actually, 22350 has to do with unsafe driving. Was I driving unsafely?"

"You were doing 60. The speed limit is 40".

"22350 has very little to do with the speed limit officer. I was on a three lane road, no one ahead of me and no one behind me. The conditions are clear. I wasn't weaving. Was I driving in an unsafe manner officer"?

"No. But you were doing 60. The speed limit is 40. Are you an attorney or something?"

"No, I'm just a guy that helps people get out of tickets when they've been unfairly cited. Before you write me up, please read the statute. By your own admission I was not driving unsafely. Before you decide to write me up, all I ask is that you please read the statute. You can save us both a lot of time by not having to appear in court."

(He takes my license and returns to his car. About three minutes later he returns carrying something. Turns out to be the vehicle code. He appears at my door and proceeds to read the code to me.)

"This is why we use 22350 because it talks about the prima facie speed limit." (About this time I'm extending my hand to shake hands with the officer, realizing he's not going to write me up.)

"I've got to respond to a guy beating up his girlfriend."

"Thank you officer. Now go get that bad guy".

(In my rear view mirror, I see the officer flip a U-turn, get in the left hand turn lane, and turn off his emergency lights. Guy beating up his girlfriend indeed. Just returning to his radar position to write someone else. Only the next one will just shrug, take the ticket and thank the officer for ruining his/her day.)

Morals of the story:

1)Know the law

2) Don't accept a ticket without trying to talk your way out of it

3) The fight for getting out of a ticket starts at the traffic stop

[Jeff Shyu]

i suspect that a large majority of the cops don't actually know the letter of the law, they just know that this is the section you cite someone with.

here's a fun one.

how many people know that it's 100% legal for a car to "split lanes"?

here's the actual vehicle code.

no mention of a motorcycle, only that the vehicle needs to stay in the lane. find a road wide enough, it's 100% legal for a car to split another car.

[George Schilling]

i suspect that a large majority of the cops don't actually know the letter of the law, they just know that this is the section you cite someone with.

here's a fun one.

how many people know that it's 100% legal for a car to "split lanes"?

here's the actual vehicle code.

no mention of a motorcycle, only that the vehicle needs to stay in the lane. find a road wide enough, it's 100% legal for a car to split another car.

There a stretch of road near my office where I do that every day.

Here's a law that surprised me. I was taught you could only make a right turn on red from the closest lane to the curb. Apparently, that's not the case.

(b) Except when a sign is in place prohibiting a turn, a driver, after stopping as required by subdivision (a), facing a steady circular red signal, may turn right, or turn left from a one-way street onto a one-way street. A driver making that turn shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to any vehicle that has approached or is approaching so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard to the driver, and shall continue to yield the right-of-way to that vehicle until the driver can proceed with reasonable safety.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

One summer I worked as bonded messenger in dowtown Chicago, which has a lot of one-way streets. Left-turn on red made it quicker to get around.

[Theo O.]

Lucky

If I even open my mouth to speak I would have caught a night stick to the throat, while I'm struggling to breathe, he will have ample time to sprinkle some cocaine on my body as he radio's in for backup.

[Jeff Shyu]

i'm always torn on if i want to fight the ticket there, or try to be as bland as possible as to not be memorable.

[George Schilling]

i'm always torn on if i want to fight the ticket there, or try to be as bland as possible as to not be memorable.

I thought about that, but I was so in the right that I decided give it a go. And I wasn't really arguing so much as teaching. And I could see the officer was completely taken back by my argument. I mean, what could he say? I was right.

If I had had Theo in the car, I might have tried a different tack. Something like, "Officer, I know this may sound funny, but I wasn't really driving. It was my friend here, Theo. Theo, meet Mr. Officer. Mr. Officer meet Theo. Surely Mr. Officer you can see, ahem, that despite Theo sitting it the passenger seat that he was obviously driving (wink, wink).

Of course this is in jest, but 60 years in the south, this may have worked. But today Theo, be respectful and give it try. Attitude is everything.

[Rick Brown]

Lucky

If I even open my mouth to speak I would have caught a night stick to the throat, while I'm struggling to breathe, he will have ample time to sprinkle some cocaine on my body as he radio's in for backup.

Does this qualify as "profiling"?



As in you profiling all cops based on the actions of the few? ;)

[Theo O.]

Lucky

If I even open my mouth to speak I would have caught a night stick to the throat, while I'm struggling to breathe, he will have ample time to sprinkle some cocaine on my body as he radio's in for backup.

Does this qualify as "profiling"?



As in you profiling all cops based on the actions of the few? ;)

I profile all the time Heck, sometimes I profile myself ;)

By the way I believe some people needs a good beating, which is why I can't be a cop , like those psychos that makes the police chase them on cops. If I have to chase you around then I get to beat the crap out of you when I catch you.

[George Schilling]

Thankfully, I didn't get a cop like these. If I had, the conversation might have been quite different.

"Driver's license and registration."

"What's the problem officer?"

"Shut-up or you're going to jail!"

"But officer"

"What did I say? Shut the h... up"

"But sir" (suddenly my door opened, I felt hands around my head as I got dragged out of the car. #?*&$#*&^$^%$@$#&***^&^%$@%@%%&*. I don't remember much. But he didn't give me a ticket.)

[Jeff Shyu]

police should all walk around with a german shephard. something about a trained police dog shuts people up..

at least unless you haven't seen those car chases which end with the K9 unit being unleashed..

did i mention i have a german shephard puppy?!.. so much easier to train than my very very stubborn english bulldog.

[Theo O.]

Funny stuff George

Anyone notice that the car in this pic looks like a Spec 89 Civic, and the perp/punching bag looks like Steve? Did Steve paint his car from white to Metrosexual Blue recently?

[Steve Ekstrand]

The only time I was ever arrested I was treated in a manner that would have been an easy winning lawsuit for any "person of color". And of course, my chances of dying that night were pretty high given how many guns were pressed into my head when a rookie cop yelled, "GUN GUN GUN GUN!!!!" (I had a clip in my pocket).

But unfortunately, I'm a fat white Christian conservative male. No lotto winnings for me that day. Did get an apology from the Pasadena Chief of Police.

[Theo O.]

The only time I was ever arrested I was treated in a manner that would have been an easy winning lawsuit for any "person of color". And of course, my chances of dying that night were pretty high given how many guns were pressed into my head when a rookie cop yelled, "GUN GUN GUN GUN!!!!" (I had a clip in my pocket).

But unfortunately, I'm a fat white Christian conservative male. No lotto winnings for me that day. Did get an apology from the Pasadena Chief of Police.

Scary stuff!!!

This is the only time that I don't support gun control. I'm unconfortable that a cop can just walk up to my car with a gun and I'm basically defenseless.

[Dennis Healy]

shot in the dark but..

i need some advice. i got a 22406(b) citation for towing my tire trailer and exceeding the posted trailer speed limit of 55mph on the I-5 south on the way to the SDNT. it was in yreka, as i was descending a hill around a bend and radar was used. i was granted a continuance of 25 days after sending a letter in at the last moment and demonstrating intent to file a trial by declaration, since i don't really want to drive 5 hours to fight this in person. any tips in what i should write? am i screwed if the officer submits a declaration? my main hope is that it doesn't go onto my record for insurance purposes until my ticket from 2007 clears in september, so i'm pretty sure i've succeeded there. but if i can get out of the $425 i was assessed, that'd be nice too!

any/all help/laughter/criticism appreciated

[George Schilling]

shot in the dark but..

i need some advice. i got a 22406(b) citation for towing my tire trailer and exceeding the posted trailer speed limit of 55mph on the I-5 south on the way to the SDNT. it was in yreka, as i was descending a hill around a bend and radar was used. i was granted a continuance of 25 days after sending a letter in at the last moment and demonstrating intent to file a trial by declaration, since i don't really want to drive 5 hours to fight this in person. any tips in what i should write? am i screwed if the officer submits a declaration? my main hope is that it doesn't go onto my record for insurance purposes until my ticket from 2007 clears in september, so i'm pretty sure i've succeeded there. but if i can get out of the $425 i was assessed, that'd be nice too!

any/all help/laughter/criticism appreciated

For those that don't know, Dennis has been bringing his BS Solstice to the westcoast national type events and has been tormenting Joey and myself. So please, don't help him. Maybe he'll stay out of California.

Seriously, he's a good guy. I've never fought anything like this. I there someone with experience trailer speeding tickets? This is one of those absolute speed laws, so I'm assuming the only defense is to challenge the radar accuracy? Dennis, do you know the usual steps on how to word a TBD and challenging radar?

[Dennis Healy]

lol, if you add up the thosandths of seconds one of you always seems to beat me by, i'd say it's you guys tormenting me!!

i have the TR-205 (sent after my request for it and the continuance), and will be sending it in along with the $425 check before the july 1st due date. as for the radar accuracy defense, i'll have to do a little reading into that. i'm tempted to just put NOT GUILTY and send it in, hoping the officer doesn't respond. but such a flippant response in a small town like yreka might provoke the judge to personally see to it that he responds!!

[George Schilling]

After my last incident with TBD, I'm thinking (like most government bs) that the system is rigged and there is no accountability.

A friend of mine was involve in a minor fender bender. A cop showed up after the fact and based on hearsay, wrote her a ticket. I had her submit a TBD stating the fact that the officer did not witness the incident and she was not guilty of what she had been cited. Without a witness, I thought it would be a slam dunk win. Wrong! A new trial is now pending. My question for the legal types out there, how do I subpoena the officers response to the TBD? I'd really like to know how the judge was able to find her guilty.

Also, any help for my friend Dennis and his trailer citation?

[Kevin Price]

My question for the legal types out there, how do I subpoena the officers response to the TBD? I'd really like to know how the judge was able to find her guilty.

Also, any help for my friend Dennis and his trailer citation?

Court records are public- your friend shoud just be able to walk in and request a copy.

One thing you haven't mentioned in your original post is how fast you were going. Was the officer wrong at clocking you at 60mph?

[George Schilling]

One thing you haven't mentioned in your original post is how fast you were going. Was the officer wrong at clocking you at 60mph?

I had no clue how fast I was going but I wouldn't have argued 60. It seemed about right.

[George Schilling]

Went to court for a ticket on another matter this morning, December 30. The rate of "officer no shows" was about 80%, including mine. I don't know if this was an aberration or not, but if I could postpone a court date until the week after Christmas and before the new year, I would do it. No hard facts of course, but the anecdotal evidence was pretty convincing.

[Mako Koiwai]

Nice planning!

[Kurt Rahn]

Went to court for a ticket on another matter this morning, December 30. The rate of "officer no shows" was about 80%, including mine. I don't know if this was an aberration or not, but if I could postpone a court date until the week after Christmas and before the new year, I would do it. No hard facts of course, but the anecdotal evidence was pretty convincing.

You get in trouble a lot for an old guy

[Steve Towers]

George Schilling wrote:Went to court for a ticket on another matter this morning, December 30. The rate of "officer no shows" was about 80%, including mine. I don't know if this was an aberration or not, but if I could postpone a court date until the week after Christmas and before the new year, I would do it. No hard facts of course, but the anecdotal evidence was pretty convincing.

You get in trouble a lot for an old guy

Actually George is only 31. But it's been a really gnarly 31 years.

[Mako Koiwai]

George ... I think you might really like the New Years Drive: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4823" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You get to harass GT-3's "Trundle'ing" along: