Where are the rules for CST?

[John Hernandez]

I don't seem them in the supplemental rulebook. Is this pretty much an open class?

[Robert Puertas]

Same as CSM, but tires need to have a tread wear rating of 140 or higher.

[Q V]

Robert already answered, but it is there (Appendix A - page 22):

CALIFORNIA STREET TOURING (CST):
Vehicles eligible for CST must comply with the rules of CSM, with the exception that
all of the tires mounted on the car must have a TREADWEAR number of 140 or
higher molded by the manufacturer on the sidewall.
CALIFORNIA STREET MODIFIED (CSM):
Vehicles eligible for CSM must be capable of being licensed for street use in
California, shall be run on DOT approved tires and must meet all SCCA Solo2
Safety requirements.

"rules", lol.

[Mike Simanyi]

If you'd like to build your car for the best flexibility, build it to the national Street Modified standards and apply your choice of 140+ treadwear street tire. If you ever want to run at a National event, all you have to do is bolt on some R compounds and sign up.

Street Modified is an interesting rule set. It encompasses all the Stock, Street Touring and Street Prepared allowances, as well as some of its own. In Street Prepared, for example, they're gaining an allowance to remove the interior rearview mirror as of January 2011, making that legal in Street Modified as well.

The 2010 Solo Rules are available online at the SCCA website. I believe we have a link to it from our main site. If you have any questions after you confuse yourself trying to read the Street Modified allowances, let me know and I'll try to provide an answer. You might also want to visit SCCAForums.com and search in the Street Modified forum to see if your question has been asked and answered before.

Mike

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

I believe we have a link to it from our main site.

Our chairman is correct. Please go to our main site (Solo2.com) and the left-hand side navigation bar has links to our own supplemental rules & regulations along with links to the SCCA National Solo Rules, and ProSolo Rules, and car classing listsings and rules.

[Bill Martin]

CALIFORNIA STREET TOURING (CST):
Vehicles eligible for CST must comply with the rules of CSM, with the exception that
all of the tires mounted on the car must have a TREADWEAR number of 140 or
higher molded by the manufacturer on the sidewall.
CALIFORNIA STREET MODIFIED (CSM):
Vehicles eligible for CSM must be capable of being licensed for street use in
California, shall be run on DOT approved tires and must meet all SCCA Solo2
Safety requirements.

Does that imply the car must be CARB-legal?

[Robert Puertas]

Does that imply the car must be CARB-legal?

I don't think so.
Then a car made before 1967 would be illegal.
As would anything with a SB100 registration...

[Q V]

Just "capable" of being registered... ;)

[Bill Martin]

Just "capable" of being registered... ;)

My off-road Samurai is not capable of being registered because it has a fuel cell and the state referee couldn't allow it under California law. SM allows fuel cells. Under the wording I don't see how CSM could. That's just one example of what must be dozens. If California will not register a car due to mods, how is that car "capable" of being registered? Looks to me like a poorly worded rule that people just ignore. I imagine the intent was to require lights, windshield, horn, signals etc. But that's not what it says. I think our rules used to require "normal road-going equipment" or words to that effect. I wonder why we changed?

[Robert Puertas]

It's a tough one.
The intent, I believe, is to allow anything that could actually be driven to the event a place to run.

But how do you word that without unintentionally excluding something that is totally within the spirit of the class?

If you put DOT Hoosiers on the Europa should that be allowed to run CSM? Maybe not...
I remember when a certain San Diego resident brought his DM Seven up and ran it in CSM on DOT Hoosiers. I heard Kiesel did something similar in SD.

But any random kit car that shows up, like the Lister with the big block, or a Cobra, 550 spyder, Monster Miata, Ariel Atom, Caterham, [cough] Toniq [cough] ?
That seems like the intent.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Its A LOCAL CLASS!!!

Maybe the rules should say no pansy ass whining rules lawyers. It should be a car. You know, with a windshield, a seat, and a four wheels.

If you want rules arguments, that's what those 34 SCCA classes are for.

[Robert Puertas]

Its A LOCAL CLASS!!!

Maybe the rules should say no pansy ass whining rules lawyers. It should be a car. You know, with a windshield, a seat, and a four wheels.

If you want rules arguments, that's what those 34 SCCA classes are for.

A windshield? I've seen hot rods cruising around without those!

[Mike Simanyi]

Does that imply the car must be CARB-legal?

I don't see it that way. My Arizona-registered car is perfectly legal for street use in California. (Fill in Montana, Idaho, Alaska, Texas, etc. in lieu of Arizona...)

[Bill Martin]

Well, what I really meant to ask is if the rules required the car to be able to pass California smog? With apologies to Steve (hey the drugs will wear off by morning), I think " must be capable of being licensed for street use in California" implies the vehicle is kosher with the state smog laws. And I agree with Robert, that's not the intent. I also agree with Robert that it's difficult, because it's probably politically incorrect to say outright the car does not have to be smog legit. I thought "normal road-going equipment" was a good description. Neither my Europa nor any of Roberts other examples are likely to have all that crap.

But, with apologies to Steve (jeez didn't I just say that?) I actually just wanted to know if the cars were expected to be smogable, given the wording. Sorry Steve.

Have a good nite Steve.

[Q V]

Looks to me like a poorly worded rule that people just ignore.

Though not to the letter of CST "rules", it's always been considered the run what you brung class - CSM w/ dot R's & CST w/ anything >140 treadwear.

I do see your point, Bill, since it's saying that cars should be capable of being registered in CA, not just used in CA. The wording could be changed to what Steve said "must be a car", perhaps satisfying basic safety requirements in section XYZ - I don't think we NEED to have windshields, since there are prepared classes which don't require it & I think we had a dune buggy run w/ our class (not 100% sure on which class it was) a couple events that had no windshield.

As for actually being smoggable... the reason I put capable in quotes was that no one expects it to be able to pass smog. Even w/ your car w/ the fuel cell, I'm sure it is capable of being registered in CA w/ enough money. Just because one person was unsuccessful @ registering it doesn't necessarily mean it's not capable of being registered.

[Steve Ekstrand]

My point was more that if you introduce anything like SCCA rules or rules interpretation in your approach to CSM/CST they aren't the right class to even think about. It should be the outlaw class for cool rides not necessarily built for autocross. They can be built for autocross, unless they were built with the hardcore intent to dominate and crush the class. In that rare case, then you should be allowed to win one time, then for ever more have a "1" added in front of whatever time you run. Like, "Hey, you're #1, so nice 163.894 second run!"

There should be an additional rule that cars not necessarily built for autocross, but possessing names like Lotus, Rossion, Noble, and Toniq all will receive a "2" in front of their times as in, "Hey, that looks like a really cool ride, too bad they are classed so tough in SCCA, sorry you can't win against our junk rods, but we're happy to have you in the class as trophy fodder, nice 263.894 second run!"

;)

[Jason Isley BS RX8]

My off-road Samurai is not capable of being registered because it has a fuel cell and the state referee couldn't allow it under California law.

You Samurai may run into a problem with the rules regarding high profile vehicles, and is likely not allowed to run in any class.

[Bill Martin]

You Samurai may run into a problem with the rules regarding high profile vehicles, and is likely not allowed to run in any class.

Heh, you got that right...wasn't my point though. My point is some of you may not know that California has recently significantly tightened their rules that referees need to follow for legalizing mods. Much of what used to be done can no longer be done.

None of which matters if you don't intend to enforce the first section of the CSM rule. And that's worked so far.

[Doug Kott]

The cool thing about CST is that you can modify your car as you see fit without having to pick through the rulebook. License plate, current registration and 140-treadwear street tires? You're pretty much good to go. I've got some additional underbody bracing on my MR2 Spyder that would move me to CSP, and while that change alone won't net an appreciable difference in times, it really makes the car feel better on the street, going up driveways and such. You can't really expect to do well in PAX, though, unless you've got an Exige or something, as the factor is 0.865.

[Eric Clements]

[cough] Toniq [cough]

Hmmm, that could happen very soon...

[Randy Chase]

Mbut possessing names like Lotus, Rossion, Noble, and Toniq all will receive a "2"
;)

Someone mention my name?

2005 Lotus Elise
2009 Rossion Q1
2006 Noble M400
2010 Toniq CB (coming soon to an autocross near you)

[Randy Chase]

But seriously... a Corvette and a Lotus run very close times in SS. You would penalize someone that wanted to run a Lotus in CSM, but not the Corvette? Where is that line drawn?

Sorry if some cars are going to be faster, but the idea is to be able to run cars you can't legally run in other classes (like when I ran the Noble in CSM) or because the car is really not prepped to national competition. The Rossion for example, would get killed in SS I think. It has no prep at all. The Toniq is probably the same, though it remains to be seen. A real national-level prepped car in almost any class would do better in CSM. But for me, I don't want to prep the Toniq. I just want a class to go fast in and have a good time. Does the Toniq really not fit the intent of the class?

p.s. It is running on A-048s and I have no intent on going to Hoosiers or anything else stickier.

[David Barrish]

Randy,

Anything that looks remotely like a "7" is going to be treated like a "ginger" by the SCCA.

You could run in "Historic" as a continuation of the Lotus in AP on street tires, your index would be APX.

David Barrish

[Rick Brown]

Randy,

Anything that looks remotely like a "7" is going to be treated like a "ginger" by the SCCA.

You could run in "Historic" as a continuation of the Lotus in AP on street tires, your index would be APX.

David Barrish

No such class. Only ASX through HSX.