Warranty Question

[Kurt Rahn]

Got a question for those in the stock classes: have any of you with newer cars had any problems with dealers not honoring your warranty after making the allowed stock class mods. I think the DA shocks and the cat-back exhaust are the most likely to cause issues.

Also, for you lawyer types (or those that play one on TV), I've heard that making mods doesn't automatically void the entire warranty, only parts that are potentially affected by the mod. In other words, if I've got an aftermarket cat-back and something unrelated like my oil pan breaks, could they say "sorry, Charlie?" Is that the case, or am I completely screwed no matter what?

[Jeff Shyu]

The easier way to look at it, is that dealerships can only deny warranty service if they can prove your aftermarket part caused the failure.

catback is somewhat of an oddity because i've heard of dealers denying warranty on some mazda 3's because it screwed with the O2, and subsequently, AFR. they can't deny you warranty work caused by a failed suspension, due to a CBE though (unless it was some really janky exhaust install that caused it or something)

[John Coffey]

Two minutes with Google:

http://www.sema.org/main/semaorghome.aspx?ID=50096" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bill Schenker]

Reality Check.

No matter the laws or Warranty, if a dealer wants, he won't do the work. Years ago my motor went bad under warranty (started burning oil @ about 10k miles), they saw a couple of stickers and said I race it, "tough luck."

Mazdaspeed couldn't help me. I took it all the way to some Mazda Field Service guy or something like that, he denied it. Only mods. were: roll bar, lowering springs and CAI

The Stealerships can basically get away with murder.

[Kurt Rahn]

The Stealerships can basically get away with murder.

That was my next question...what recourse do you have if they deny your warranty claim?

Edit: Guess I should have read the article before posting this. Thanks, John!

[Steve Ekstrand]

You stopped too soon Bill. You have to push through as fast as possible to the district guy and get denied so you can file a small claims court case. Where you will win. They may or may not demand arbitration which is legal under their contract with you. Where you will win.

I get to hear my dad rant about this every visit.

People spend way too much time bickering with stealers. Just document who you talked to and the reason for the denial. In writing from the service manager and the district rep makes it all clean in tidy in the 3 minute small claims court trial or the 15 minute interview with the arbitrator.

[Bill Schenker]

That was my next question...what recourse do you have if they deny your warranty claim?

Build up your motor to true Street Prepared specs. like I did!

[Bill Schenker]

You stopped too soon Bill. You have to push through as fast as possible to the district guy and get denied so you can file a small claims court case. Where you will win. They may or may not demand arbitration which is legal under their contract with you. Where you will win.

I get to hear my dad rant about this every visit.

People spend way too much time bickering with stealers. Just document who you talked to and the reason for the denial. In writing from the service manager and the district rep makes it all clean in tidy in the 3 minute small claims court trial or the 15 minute interview with the arbitrator.

Crap, where was my high priced lawyer back then when I needed him (2000)?

[Kurt Rahn]

You stopped too soon Bill. You have to push through as fast as possible to the district guy and get denied so you can file a small claims court case. Where you will win. They may or may not demand arbitration which is legal under their contract with you. Where you will win.

I get to hear my dad rant about this every visit.

People spend way too much time bickering with stealers. Just document who you talked to and the reason for the denial. In writing from the service manager and the district rep makes it all clean in tidy in the 3 minute small claims court trial or the 15 minute interview with the arbitrator.

That's about what I figured. If they're gonna dick you around, they'll just keep doing it at all levels and waste time. I've done small claims, so I'm relatively comfortable with that.

[Jeff Shyu]

people with some level of authority like to exhibit their authority as often as possible. to get results, you simply have to know who has even more authority than them, and doesn't have a vested interest in protecting them.

case in point, been trying to get the police to do something for me for a week, they wouldn't.. i fired off an e-mail to the mayor + councilmen + newspaper, and had the police calling me up to see what they can do for me within 2 hours.

[Steve Ekstrand]

The dealers and car companies have learned that if you tell most people no thats the end of it. Very few push for their rights.

In their defense, the ones that do push for their rights get it way too easily. The industry would be bankrupted if all did it. Oh wait, they are bankrupted now.

[John Coffey]

A friend had a Lemon Law case go to arbitration. When a Ford District Manager testified that, "Our cars are designed to pull to the right as a safety measure." The Ford Attorney jumped up and said, "We will accept your last settlement offer if you will agree to strike all testimony in this arbitration." My friend quickly said, "No" and eventually got an additional $20,000 on top of their original settlement offer.

Sometimes the Big Guys screw up Big Time.

[Bill Schenker]

A friend had a Lemon Law case go to arbitration. When a Ford District Manager testified that, "Our cars are designed to pull to the right as a safety measure." The Ford Attorney jumped up and said, "We will accept your last settlement offer if you will agree to strike all testimony in this arbitration." My friend quickly said, "No" and eventually got an additional $20,000 on top of their original settlement offer.

Sometimes the Big Guys screw up Big Time.

Nice!

[Steve Ekstrand]

Dealers and district employees all seem to have the sales mentality. Which means IQ of 50 and an absolutely belief that they can say anything without consequence and that they are smarter than the customer.

Lawyers get to try and clean up the mess afterwards.

I came close once to taking on a job managing the buyback program for a major car company. It would be a depressing job as I found you always lost. But your performance was based on minimizing the damage. I didn't know how I'd do that, so I passed.

[Zak Gutmann]

Got a question for those in the stock classes: have any of you with newer cars had any problems with dealers not honoring your warranty after making the allowed stock class mods. I think the DA shocks and the cat-back exhaust are the most likely to cause issues.

Also, for you lawyer types (or those that play one on TV), I've heard that making mods doesn't automatically void the entire warranty, only parts that are potentially affected by the mod. In other words, if I've got an aftermarket cat-back and something unrelated like my oil pan breaks, could they say "sorry, Charlie?" Is that the case, or am I completely screwed no matter what?

Not a laywer but a mechanic at a few dealerships; it depends on the individual dealership and sometimes the individual mechanic as to how many mods you get away with before they cry "foul!" When I was at Santa Monica VW, we were pretty laid back. The law does state that if an installed component does not adversely effect the operation of the system to which it is attatched, the warranty stands. So, yeah, a cat back and swaybar CANNOT keep you from an engine repair. How much trouble it is to have whatever repair it is, can be a different story.