Post Car Classing Help Questions Here!

[KJ Christopher]

............... or one of the positions in the motor home (announcer, timing compurter operator or master radio).

Uh, no. We generally don't take someone for those jobs without knowing their skills in advance. If someone is interested in any of those jobs, come talk to me or Christine first please.

Grid is NOT a newbie job either. There is a lot more to it than "keep four cars in the line". Grid and Starter are two positions that greatly impact the flow of the event.

[Steve Ekstrand]

More reasons to fully develop a paid worker option.

[Mike Simanyi]

More reasons to fully develop a paid worker option.

Three words: Worker's Compensation Liability.

We're a run / work volunteer organization. That fundamental is key to the operation.

[Mako Koiwai]

@ Steve ... starting a new thread on Worker Health Issues

[Leonard Cachola]

I was only planning Saturday attendance, but might be able to do some work Sunday, if you're short.

While I'm not writing this to discourage Saturday-only participation, I would like to point out that Saturdays are a test-n-tune for those of us who compete in Autocross Sunday. Taking a spot on Saturday without intending to compete on Sunday takes away a spot from someone who does compete and needs the time to prepare their car or themselves. Due to the limited number of practice spots, this is why we encourage newbies to attend Sundays when they are first starting out. On Sundays, we have novice walks in the morning and at lunch in addition to available instructors. This isn't always the case on Saturdays.

While I totally understand the need for newbies to become acclimated to the sport by doing practices and test-n-tunes before moving on to competition, it's important to note that this is a motorsport. Everything we do is geared toward doing well at competing in this motorsport and having fun while doing it, not just driving solely at practices. After all, what's the point of practicing if you aren't going to apply it to competing?

I'm not saying that you won't or don't intend to compete at some point in the future, I just want to raise your awareness of why we have Saturday practices/test-n-tunes.

[Mako Koiwai]

And remember that we now offer X-Runs on Sunday ... so you can get 8 runs. Typically just doing a lot of runs on Saturday without instruction is a slow and expensive way to try and progress. One shouldn't just Practice bad habits ... one should consciously and methodically Train.

[Kurt Rahn]

While I'm not writing this to discourage Saturday-only participation, I would like to point out that Saturdays are a test-n-tune for those of us who compete in Autocross Sunday. Taking a spot on Saturday without intending to compete on Sunday takes away a spot from someone who does compete and needs the time to prepare their car or themselves. Due to the limited number of practice spots, this is why we encourage newbies to attend Sundays when they are first starting out. On Sundays, we have novice walks in the morning and at lunch in addition to available instructors. This isn't always the case on Saturdays.

While I totally understand the need for newbies to become acclimated to the sport by doing practices and test-n-tunes before moving on to competition, it's important to note that this is a motorsport. Everything we do is geared toward doing well at competing in this motorsport and having fun while doing it, not just driving solely at practices. After all, what's the point of practicing if you aren't going to apply it to competing?

I'm not saying that you won't or don't intend to compete at some point in the future, I just want to raise your awareness of why we have Saturday practices/test-n-tunes.

Well said, Leonard.

[Steve Alexander]

In the old days, there was no such thing as Saturday practice or testing/tuning. I was not aware that just running on Saturday was any kind of problem. I was also not aware that there was no instruction available on Saturday. I assumed that both days were identical formats and proceedures, with the exception of runs not counting for competition on Saturday. There is no indication on the sign-up pages to the contrary, and this is the first I have heard about it. Also, no mention of there being a limited number of spots available...to the contrary, it says you need to get a minimum of 100 cars signed up, or you will refund the entry fees,"not cash the checks" as clearly stated on the sign-up page.
My intention was to use the TEST/TUNE day, to do exactly that; use it to make adjustments to my car, tires/suspension and driving techniques to improve the car and make it go faster for all types of driving; street, track, and Autocross competition,(Autocross with competent driver), as there is not a snowball's chance in my combustion chamber, of becoming competitive myself; I want to sign up for Saturday, because it looks like you get more runs for the buck and I doubt my old slicks will last the day, let alone two days. I think I have made it clear, that it would be a waste of time and yours, for me to do "Official" runs on Sundays; I am pretty sure I would only clog up the operations for the rest, who take it more seriously. If my interpetations of the purpose of Saturday Test/Tune is incorrect, I suggest you make it more clear in the promotion and sign up pages; This goes along with the classification ambiguity I have found; I go back to my statement about needing to be an insider, in order to understand the program. You guys have obviously been doing this so long that you take it for granted that everyone sees it the way you do. If you are trying to attract new blood, I suggest you start out by using laymans terminology instead of initials for everything. How about an organizational "Tree" showing SCCA at the top, then all the regions, sub regions, clubs, and classes for each. what you have right now is a bowl with SCCA written on it and inside, about 6 packages of Alphabet soup.

[Leonard Cachola]

what you have right now is a bowl with SCCA written on it and inside, about 6 packages of Alphabet soup.

Have you read the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) rulebook available on the scca.com website?
http://www.scca.com/solo/content.cfm?cid=44517

Have you read our frequently asked questions (FAQ):
http://solo2.com/FAQ.asp

Have you read our membership FAQ?
http://solo2.com/MembershipFAQ.asp

Have you read the California Sports Car Club (CSCC) supplemental regulations available on the solo2.com website?
http://solo2.com/supp_regs/SCCA_Cal_Clu ... s_2012.pdf

Have you read the Novice Guide on the solo2.com website?
http://solo2.com/MiscDocuments/CSCC_Novice_Guide.pdf

Have you checked out any other SCCA sites for info you may still have questions with?
http://www.rmsolo.org/help.php

If you're still unclear after reading all of that, we are more than happy to have you work on helping us make it more clear for others like yourself.

[Leonard Cachola]

In the old days, there was no such thing as Saturday practice or testing/tuning. I was not aware that just running on Saturday was any kind of problem.

I have already explained to you that it was my intention to simply inform you the purpose of our Saturday practice and test-and-tunes, not make you feel like you're causing problems. Please don't make it out to be more than that.

[Mike Simanyi]

Despite Leonard pointing you to the War and Peace of autocross documents (all those links), he really is a fantastic resource to help people through the basics. We really do *try* to be welcoming and supportive of people who haven't done this before, and find that our "novice" committee is quite good at that for people who learn via direct experience rather than reading about the 10x40^10 things one could consider when showing up for an event.

Honestly, this stuff is easy. Be prepared to be outside (sunscreen, large hat, appropriate attire, umbrella, lots of water, etc.), have a helmet that complies with our requirements if you own one, empty your car out when you get there so you can register and take the car through Tech, and be aware of what's going on around you so you can be where you need to be, on time (driving, working, resting.)

All the other stuff will come to the new participant as they experience the day, and by the time they run an event or two they should be able to read the available resources and actually relate to the information being presented.

Mike

[Steve Alexander]

Leonard, So does that mean I can still run on Saturday, without doing Sunday too?
Yes, I read the rules one night, back in November I think. I was up til 6AM looking for how to class my car, and only got about 3/4 through it. What I could understand, didn't help....just made me really tired.
I just figured out how to see results from past events....I looked up my times for the November event and found my name second to the bottom of the list. I beat out one guy that was disqualified by not working. The next slowest time was a stock-class Yaris driven by a female; she beat me by over 8 seconds Pitiful

[Rick Brown]

Leonard, So does that mean I can still run on Saturday, without doing Sunday too?

You might have been, but as far as I can see you haven't registered for the practice and it's already oversubscribed. There is no absolute requirement to be in the Sunday event in order to be in the practice, we just try to discourage people from only doing the practices.

[George Schilling]

Leonard, So does that mean I can still run on Saturday, without doing Sunday too?

You might have been, but as far as I can see you haven't registered for the practice and it's already oversubscribed. There is no absolute requirement to be in the Sunday event in order to be in the practice, we just try to discourage people from only doing the practices.

While you are correct Rick that Steve has not registered for the CASOC Test 'n' Tune on Saturday, you're wrong about it being oversubscribed. We are looking to fill about 15 more slots for Saturday.

[Rick Brown]

Leonard, So does that mean I can still run on Saturday, without doing Sunday too?

You might have been, but as far as I can see you haven't registered for the practice and it's already oversubscribed. There is no absolute requirement to be in the Sunday event in order to be in the practice, we just try to discourage people from only doing the practices.

While you are correct Rick that Steve has not registered for the CASOC Test 'n' Tune on Saturday, you're wrong about it being oversubscribed. We are looking to fill about 15 more slots for Saturday.

Sorry, just glanced at MSR and it showed 104 registrations, but of course that doesn't indicate who actually sent in a check.

[Steve Alexander]

I was going to sign up wednesday, just to make sure I didn't loose my money due to rain. My cars don't leave the living room if it looks like rain. So am I to understand that not only is there a 100 car minimum in order to have the test/Tune, but the maximum is also 100 cars? It doesn't say anywhere that I have read, where you have to sign up earely, to get a spot. Might be another thing to add to the sign-up sheet info. Again, in the old days, you just show up and pay your 15$, which is what I did at Qualcom in November, and no one there even mentioned that there was any other way to do it. Most people would not expect there to be a maximum number of cars allowed to run; there isn't for any other type of racing I have done. Not saying it is good,bad or otherwise, just that it should be publicized. So, I just registered and sent in my 70$; only problem is I can't get ahold of my co driver, to make sure he is going, so I hope he can pay his 15$ driver add-on fee at the event. Since he is sharing my 12 runs, it will not add to the total run count for the day. I presume the extra 15$ is to cover the additional lunch.

[Mako Koiwai]

Steve, you can't have an unlimited amount of entries and guarantee 12 runs for everyone.

We use to have the traditional three runs on Sunday. Now, because attendance is off, we have 4 runs ... plus you can buy another 4 runs. We use to have so many entries on race Sunday that one time the folks in the afternoon only got two runs!

Imagine that at Nationals we have 1,200 drivers! ... spread over two courses over four days.

[Jeff Stuart]

I presume the extra 15$ is to cover the additional lunch.

It's usually $10 extra for 2 drivers, which covers insurance for the extra participant. Therefore, I'm guessing only $5 is going towards the lunch.

[John Fendel]

In the old days, there was no such thing as Saturday practice or testing/tuning. I was not aware that just running on Saturday was any kind of problem. I was also not aware that there was no instruction available on Saturday. I assumed that both days were identical formats and proceedures, with the exception of runs not counting for competition on Saturday. There is no indication on the sign-up pages to the contrary, and this is the first I have heard about it. Also, no mention of there being a limited number of spots available...

Steve, please read the Who We Are document in the Newbie Guide box on the solo2 website. It will probably answer most of your questions. If there isn't enough information there, please see me at tech on Saturday, I will be there from 7 to 9AM, and we can sit down and I will try to incorporate your comments in the document to make it clearer.

[George Schilling]

So am I to understand that not only is there a 100 car minimum in order to have the test/Tune, but the maximum is also 100 cars?

Where does the flier reference this? I couldn't find reference to a minimum or maximum.

[Rick Brown]

So am I to understand that not only is there a 100 car minimum in order to have the test/Tune, but the maximum is also 100 cars?

Where does the flier reference this? I couldn't find reference to a minimum or maximum.

"We're looking for a hundred or so folks........"
Would tend to indicate a max of about 100.

"Once on the entry list, the following conditions must be met or your check will be cashed:

You must cancel by midnight, April 11, 2012
The event must have 100 entered at the site the day of the event."
Actually refers to the number needed to not have your check cashed, but is probably where he got the minimum idea.

[Steve Alexander]

I am still trying to figure out what this means after reading it at least 30 times:
Once on the entry list, the following conditions must be met or your check will be cashed:
You must cancel by midnight, April 11, 2012
The event must have 100 entered at the site the day of the event."
Does it mean that after 100 entrans are recieved, then the check is cashed, or isn't cashed?
before 100 entrants are received, the check is cashed or not cashed?
Who cares when the check gets cashed anyway, unless you are using it as a way to refund entry fees.

It sounds like there must be a minimum of 100 entries before the event can be held, otherwise everyone gets their money back.
But now I am not sure, since it looks like you cap the event at 100. If so, you don't have any leway; you have to have exactly 100 entires, no more, no less.

[George Schilling]

"We're looking for a hundred or so folks........"
Would tend to indicate a max of about 100.

Oh come on Rick.......certainly you'll agree with me that this is sufficiently vague to not indicate a minimum or a maximum.

"Once on the entry list, the following conditions must be met or your check will be cashed:

You must cancel by midnight, April 11, 2012
The event must have 100 entered at the site the day of the event."
Actually refers to the number needed to not have your check cashed, but is probably where he got the minimum idea.

This only applies to conditions for a refund and has nothing to do with a minimum or maximum number of entrants for the event to proceed.

[John Stimson]

I am still trying to figure out what this means after reading it at least 30 times:
Once on the entry list, the following conditions must be met or your check will be cashed:
You must cancel by midnight, April 11, 2012
The event must have 100 entered at the site the day of the event."

It means that if you sign up for the event and get in, then you can only get a refund if you cancel by the deadline, and your cancellation doesn't result in a less-than-full event.

That is, if you don't cancel in time you still have to pay. And if you cancel in time but less than 100 people show up to the event, you still have to pay.

[Steve Alexander]

"That is, if you don't cancel in time you still have to pay. And if you cancel in time but less than 100 people show up to the event, you still have to pay."
Thanks John, now that makse sense; they should say that in the first place. The way that it is written, it sounds like on of those word riddles.

"This only applies to conditions for a refund and has nothing to do with a minimum or maximum number of entrants for the event to proceed".
George, not very nice with the roll eyes. Of course you would know what the text applies to, but what about the new commers. I am not stupid; I am an engineer and technical writer, and that was the only referance to the entry numbers that I found at the time. If the limit is 100 cars, it should be stated on the sign-up sheet, and so should whether or not you can run Saturday without running Sunday, leaving out the ambiguous words like "preferred".

"War and peace" is a good analogy for the huge amount of reading one must do, to find all the answers, and I dare say, that few of the competitors have absorbed it all. I am starting to see that this operates kind of like the California DMV; what answers you get, depends on who you ask, and the trick being to find the right person, so you get the answer you want. The IRS is like that too....An outgrowth of complexity and ever changing rules.