Novice ... one more time

[Steve Ekstrand]

SoPac has stuff?

I agree that ST classes have an advantage and that isn't very fair to the novice class.

I do think .975 is too much though. The last time I remember arguing the number it was .980 and the debate was whether .985 was more fair. Who came up with .975?

Something that has been brought up before is CSM/prep/mods on streets (or P/m's on R's). CST partially solves this.

[Leonard Cachola]

Like I said, the SK index in question is .98, not .975 - that's in the supps.

[Glenn Duensing]

You should really take your own advice Gio...

edit: BTW if one needs or wants help, ask. Info and stuff was done in Nov and now it's late March and still not up.

I'm not the one bitching and moaning about "where the novice rules are, etc...etc....", nor do I complain about things not being done. When membership processes were in disarray, I didn't say a word and just implemented a new system to make it easier for the members (i.e. PayPal). What have YOU done lately Glenn?? (where's that smiley for "sound of crickets")

So here's the "Glenn is bitching again" stuff. Yeah where are the new Novice stuff. Very hard to promote something that's vague and not posted. Been saying this since Dec and YOU keep saying it's being handled behind the scene. Behind the scene is very clear for the very few.

And for the last part Gio, well I have been very busy working behind the SoPac scene.

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

You should really take your own advice Gio...

edit: BTW if one needs or wants help, ask. Info and stuff was done in Nov and now it's late March and still not up.

I'm not the one bitching and moaning about "where the novice rules are, etc...etc....", nor do I complain about things not being done. When membership processes were in disarray, I didn't say a word and just implemented a new system to make it easier for the members (i.e. PayPal). What have YOU done lately Glenn?? (where's that smiley for "sound of crickets")

So here's the "Glenn is bitching again" stuff. Yeah where are the new Novice stuff. Very hard to promote something that's vague and not posted. Been saying this since Dec and YOU keep saying it's being handled behind the scene. Behind the scene is very clear for the very few.

And why are you complaining? Are you a novice? No. The E-Board (chair, vice-chair) + rules chair are the ones who are responsible. Why don't you PM/e-mail them offline, privately like a good Cal Club Solo member that you are....oh wait......you're NOT with Cal Club, my bad. Hmmmmm...for someone who doesn't attend events and isn't a novice and isn't part of this region, sure seems odd to constantly complain about something that has ZERO effect on them. And don't bring up that I don't attend events as I'm not complaining about these things, thus not the point. And if you noticed....there was the PSCC event, then prep for the Tour and Pro then followed by an upcoming local regional event (Team BLEW hosting) that "said people" are working on so maybe that's why they haven't gotten around to it? I'll let them speak as you seem to perpetuate your stereotype of stirring the pot yet again.

And for the last part Gio, well I have been very busy working behind the SoPac scene.

Doing what exactly??

[Glenn Duensing]

SoPac has stuff?

Yep. Working on having another Region doing the Divisional this since Cal Club doesn't want to.

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

SoPac has stuff?

Yep. Working on having another Region doing the Divisional this since Cal Club doesn't want to.

More like BURNT-OUT. There is an opening for a Divisional Chair? Care to step up and do it?

[Glenn Duensing]

And why are you complaining? Are you a novice? No. The E-Board (chair, vice-chair) + rules chair are the ones who are responsible. Why don't you PM/e-mail them offline, privately like a good Cal Club Solo member that you are....oh wait......you're NOT with Cal Club, my bad. Hmmmmm...for someone who doesn't attend events and isn't a novice and isn't part of this region, sure seems odd to constantly complain about something that has ZERO effect on them. And don't bring up that I don't attend events as I'm not complaining about these things, thus not the point. And if you noticed....there was the PSCC event, then prep for the Tour and Pro then followed by an upcoming local regional event (Team BLEW hosting) that "said people" are working on so maybe that's why they haven't gotten around to it? I'll let them speak as you seem to perpetuate your stereotype of stirring the pot yet again.

Why Gio? Because people are asking questions that would have been addressed in the rules.

And for the last part Gio, well I have been very busy working behind the SoPac scene.

Doing what exactly??

Privilege info Gio.

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

Why Gio? Because people are asking questions that would have been addressed in the rules.

Examples....?

Privilege info Gio.

So basically nothing. Good to know our DSS has our back.

[Glenn Duensing]

SoPac has stuff?

Yep. Working on having another Region doing the Divisional this since Cal Club doesn't want to.

More like BURNT-OUT. There is an opening for a Divisional Chair? Care to step up and do it?

There was NO burn out in Nov when I asked or in Jan when Mike asked me. There would have been no problem if it was a ProParts thing again. There is prizes to win the "Traid" or whatever SCCA is calling it. I would like to let the National drivers have a chance to win them that will only be by having a Divisional in SoPac.

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

There was NO burn out in Nov when I asked or in Jan when Mike asked me.

I'm sure Jayson Woodruff would beg to differ with you on that one. If I may quote Christine B., it's not like "poof" magic and you have a Divisional Crew stepping up to do it. More work than you think.

[Glenn Duensing]

Why Gio? Because people are asking questions that would have been addressed in the rules.
Examples....?

This thread for one... Nobody knew we already figured to have an SK index.

Privilege info Gio.
So basically nothing. Good to know our DSS has our back.

Just like the board Gio somethings I can't talk about. Other stuff no problem.

I'm done as this isn't going anywhere again.

[Glenn Duensing]

There was NO burn out in Nov when I asked or in Jan when Mike asked me.

I'm sure Jayson Woodruff would beg to differ with you on that one. If I may quote Christine B., it's not like "poof" magic and you have a Divisional Crew stepping up to do it. More work than you think.

Trying being the main person for FIVE Regions doing a Divisional all by yourself sometime Gio for 2 years. Been there done that.

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

There was NO burn out in Nov when I asked or in Jan when Mike asked me.

I'm sure Jayson Woodruff would beg to differ with you on that one. If I may quote Christine B., it's not like "poof" magic and you have a Divisional Crew stepping up to do it. More work than you think.

Trying being the main person for FIVE Regions doing a Divisional all by yourself sometime Gio for 2 years. Been there done that.

I thought you were done?

And if you know the hard work that it takes why take stabs at Cal Club? No one decided to step-up therefore no divisional. If you can find another region to do it then go for it.

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

Why Gio? Because people are asking questions that would have been addressed in the rules.
Examples....?

This thread for one... Nobody knew we already figured to have an SK index.

It's in the drop down list when you register for an event (Index type). It's been there for ages (old way to pre-register, new way on AXWare).

[Steve Ekstrand]

I heard the unofficial official reason Cal Club is not having Divisional this year is that nobody wanted to work directly with the Divisional Solo Events Steward.
That's the rumor I heard, but an official official response is privileged.

[Tadd Ekstrand]

Right ... so things need to be changed

We're trying to encourage novices. Imo, they should be allowed to run in a street tire class, which is where most novice would run, and still be in the running for the Novice Championship.

How many drivers are running the Novice Championship?

ME

[Tadd Ekstrand]

Right ... so things need to be changed

We're trying to encourage novices. Imo, they should be allowed to run in a street tire class, which is where most novice would run, and still be in the running for the Novice Championship.

How many drivers are running the Novice Championship?

OK, I get your point, but your statement that Novice doesn't have an index is incorrect. It has every class index that exists. But don't get me wrong, if it's doable it makes sense.

As for Tad, A) he's got some talent and, II) he's in a well-prepared car. Your proposal might not make much difference in this case.

Thank you.

[Andrew Bingham]

Why Gio? Because people are asking questions that would have been addressed in the rules.
Examples....?

This thread for one... Nobody knew we already figured to have an SK index.

It's in the drop down list when you register for an event (Index type). It's been there for ages (old way to pre-register, new way on AXWare).

But people in the Novice class, like myself, can't pick SK classes because the computer system can't do double indexes. I can pick Novice CS or SK2 CS but not Novice SK2 CS.

The proposal for the Novice Championship stated that local classes would be included, which means I *should* be able to pick Novice SK2 CS and get the extra 0.980 index for running street tires. I should be able to designate myself a Novice and run in any of our local classes, just like someone could run CST, etc.

Since there are no 2009 Supplemental Rules posted including any official information on the Novice Championship, there are no rules for any of the Novices to actually point to in requesting that this issue be resolved, for instance by the addition of a set of Stock-SK classes in the computer system that already incorporate the additional 0.980 index (which would be my preferred solution). Based on Ricks comments it doesn't sound like it would take long to implement and it would resolve a lot of confusion among Novices who don't understand why they can't run in these classes.

Maybe if people paid attention to the actual issue at hand instead of taking useless swipes at each other... Plenty of other internet forums we can all go to if we want that....

[Kurt Rahn]

The swipes are just Glenn being Glenn. Never met the guy, but every post I've seen from him seems more designed to stir up the crap than help in some way.

Your point is a good one, Andrew. Last year when I ran in Novice, you couldn't run an indexed class (e.g. I had to run straight DS to run as a novice). I haven't been following closely enough to know if this has been addressed in the supps, but if it hasn't, it should be.

[Andrew Bingham]

3. If they are all runing on street tires anyway then why does it matter?

Because I keep track of my performance with respect to the other Novices as well as with respect to the people in the "normal" class I would be in if I wasn't running as a Novice.

That gives anyone running an ST index an advantage in the NOV class.

That is exactly what is happening now though... People with cars that can be classed in the ST* classes have an advantage over Novice drivers with cars that are not eligible for those classes.

As an example, in the 3/1 event the 0.980 SK2 index would have moved me up 2 places (assuming the AS guy above me also ran street tires and had an SK1 index applied) ahead of two ST people.

The people running ST*, CST, and SST (15 out of the 27 novices in the 3/1 event) are already getting their street tires accounted for in the overall index for their classes... It's really unfair to the folks in the Stock classes (9 out of 27) that we can't pick SK1/2 if we are running on street tires, since a large portion of the Novice field is already running in classes with street-tire based indexes.

As for Tad, A) he's got some talent and, II) he's in a well-prepared car. Your proposal might not make much difference in this case.

When there are 27 entries and 7 trophies being given out, having 1/3rd of the field not able to be properly indexed for running on street tires will at some point inevitably affect who trophies at individual events.

[Kurt Rahn]

Even better argument, Andrew. I never thought that through. If you look at the ST PAX, it's almost identical to the DS PAX, not taking into account the SK index. Trying to compare a ST car to a DS/SK2 car without the additional SK index is ludicrous. SK novices really need to get that extra SK credit. It still won't completely make up the advantage that ST has, but at least it'd close the gap.

[Glenn Duensing]

The swipes are just Glenn being Glenn. Never met the guy, but every post I've seen from him seems more designed to stir up the crap than help in some way.

Your point is a good one, Andrew. Last year when I ran in Novice, you couldn't run an indexed class (e.g. I had to run straight DS to run as a novice). I haven't been following closely enough to know if this has been addressed in the supps, but if it hasn't, it should be.

Hey Kurt, yes all of the question were addressed last year. Good news is that I heard at the meeting Thursday is that everything is almost ready to post. Just need the Board to read them. BTW the Board (Chair, VC, Tres, Past Chair and various Chair) is different than the Committee (Club reps) Go to viewtopic.php?f=10&t=869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the proposal.

The only question is will they go back over the results and make changes or toss the first couple events and start over.

[Rick Brown]

The swipes are just Glenn being Glenn. Never met the guy, but every post I've seen from him seems more designed to stir up the crap than help in some way.

Your point is a good one, Andrew. Last year when I ran in Novice, you couldn't run an indexed class (e.g. I had to run straight DS to run as a novice). I haven't been following closely enough to know if this has been addressed in the supps, but if it hasn't, it should be.

Hey Kurt, yes all of the question were addressed last year. Good news is that I heard at the meeting Thursday is that everything is almost ready to post. Just need the Board to read them. BTW the Board (Chair, VC, Tres, Past Chair and various Chair) is different than the Committee (Club reps) Go to viewtopic.php?f=10&t=869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the proposal.

The only question is will they go back over the results and make changes or toss the first couple events and start over.

It's only two events. If they want it changed it's no big deal, would not take much time at all. Would just need a list of who gets reclassed.

[Michael Smith]

Hi all,
I drive the 90 Si in HS-Nov and I'm hooked already. I'm new to Solo racing and was invited by a co-worker.
Personally I think that the Novice should be Stock cars and not Prepped/Touring. It's a good way to get people in the sport, and show them it can be affordable.
I've been told and read that improving the driving is priority to modifying your car. This would be a good lesson for Novice drivers.
When the season ends, they could move to their class, the SK class, or higher.
It can be discouraging when it seems early on that you will have no chance to win an event.
I'll still have fun though. That's what it's all about, right?
See you all this weekend!

Thanks,
Michael

[Sebastian Rios]

I understand where you are coming from Michael, but the problem is that even "Stock" (as we call it) is a preparation level. A new person driving a "Stock" class car that has already been developed will still have an advantage, not only because the car has the right parts and settings, but because it would more likely be current top car for the class.