Novice ... one more time

[Mako Koiwai]

I can't help thinking that it's better for newbs to run Novice SK2 rather then Novice CS (with a street tire Miata) ?

But a novice told me that he couldn't run Novice SK2 ... doesn't make sense ?

[Jason Munchhof]

The timing software does not allow more than one indexed class to be applied. For the same reason, you can't run PAX SK2, or SK2 X runs. I think it's a pretty safe assumption that Novice class drivers will not be on r-compounds anyways.

[Aaron Goldsmith]

The timing software does not allow more than one indexed class to be applied. For the same reason, you can't run PAX SK2, or SK2 X runs. I think it's a pretty safe assumption that Novice class drivers will not be on r-compounds anyways.

Agreed, tires are not gunna be the largest performance modifier in novice class.

[Mako Koiwai]

But Novice doesn't get an Index ... so why can't one set things so that you run SK2 ... which has a tire index ... but still be classified under the Novice Championship group? :mrt:

[Bob Beamesderfer]

But Novice doesn't get an Index ... so why can't one set things so that you run SK2 ... which has a tire index ... but still be classified under the Novice Championship group? :mrt:

Novice uses the index for the class the driver signs up for. That's why someone can't run Novice CS SK2.

[Mako Koiwai]

Right ... so things need to be changed

We're trying to encourage novices. Imo, they should be allowed to run in a street tire class, which is where most novice would run, and still be in the running for the Novice Championship.

How many drivers are running the Novice Championship?

[Christine Grice]

Right ... so things need to be changed

We're trying to encourage novices. Imo, they should be allowed to run in a street tire class, which is where most novice would run, and still be in the running for the Novice Championship.

How many drivers are running the Novice Championship?

I think you need to start that statement off with a couple questions first:

1. Will the software accomadate that change? (If it can't handle that opperation then it doesn't matter how good of an idea it is, it won't happen)
2. How long will that change take Rick to implament? (If it would take Rick 40 hours talking to the programer and testing it out, then even if it could happen then it won't actually be done until next year)
3. If they are all runing on street tires anyway then why does it matter?


I'm not saying its a bad idea, I'm just saying that it might not be as easy as *poof*, like magic we apply the SK index to novice.

[Mako Koiwai]

OK ... looking at the Novice Championship results, it looks like Tadd will probably run away with it anyway.

So we just have to keep reminding the registration people that Novices should be steered away from SK1/SK2 ... how about SST/CST ?

[Kurt Rahn]

Right ... so things need to be changed

We're trying to encourage novices. Imo, they should be allowed to run in a street tire class, which is where most novice would run, and still be in the running for the Novice Championship.

How many drivers are running the Novice Championship?

I think you need to start that statement off with a couple questions first:

1. Will the software accomadate that change? (If it can't handle that opperation then it doesn't matter how good of an idea it is, it won't happen)
2. How long will that change take Rick to implament? (If it would take Rick 40 hours talking to the programer and testing it out, then even if it could happen then it won't actually be done until next year)
3. If they are all runing on street tires anyway then why does it matter?

I'm not saying its a bad idea, I'm just saying that it might not be as easy as *poof*, like magic we apply the SK index to novice.

It'd probably be easier just to make a rule that nobody running novice can run on R comps.

[Christine Grice]

It'd probably be easier just to make a rule that nobody running novice can run on R comps.

That gives anyone running an ST index an advantage in the NOV class.

[Kurt Rahn]

It'd probably be easier just to make a rule that nobody running novice can run on R comps.

That gives anyone running an ST index an advantage in the NOV class.

Whoops. Never mind.

[Rick Brown]

Right ... so things need to be changed

We're trying to encourage novices. Imo, they should be allowed to run in a street tire class, which is where most novice would run, and still be in the running for the Novice Championship.

How many drivers are running the Novice Championship?

I think you need to start that statement off with a couple questions first:

1. Will the software accomadate that change? (If it can't handle that opperation then it doesn't matter how good of an idea it is, it won't happen)
2. How long will that change take Rick to implament? (If it would take Rick 40 hours talking to the programer and testing it out, then even if it could happen then it won't actually be done until next year)
3. If they are all runing on street tires anyway then why does it matter?


I'm not saying its a bad idea, I'm just saying that it might not be as easy as *poof*, like magic we apply the SK index to novice.

The work around that I did for Historic to allow those on street tires to get the extra index was to simply create an extra set of classes in the software for stock cars on 140+ tires. The classes are SSX through HSX, available in the timing computer and online. So the Historic people know to pick one of those classes as their base if in a stock class on street tires and if you look at results you will see things like HISTHSX. Slight issue is the Historic rules specify .975 instead of .98 as the extra index.

But yes, someone could already pick Novice CSX and they would get the extra .975 index. I could add additional classes, say SSSK through HSSK, with the built in .98 SK index. Really doesn't take much time for me. Not sure how much confusion factor it adds for the Reg people plus explaining to Novices in the online reg instructions.

[Marshall Grice]

3. If they are all runing on street tires anyway then why does it matter?

That gives anyone running an ST index an advantage in the NOV class.

i suspect this is the core issue, no?

[Glenn Duensing]

Man we really need to finalize the novice rules.

From the proposal:
g) Class results are based on the entrant’s best time multiplied by the National PAX/RTP Index for their SCCA Solo II class plus any penalty. This index is listed in Appendix C.

i) For cars with Stock, Street Prepared and Prepared Indexes: All cars running tires with a treadwear rating of 140 or higher will receive an additional PAX of .975 over their car’s standard PAX. The use of street tires must be indicated on the registration card.

So much was talked about on how to keep the novice competitive all year long so one "could" start late and still have a chance of winning and nothing is in writing and posted!

Even with new people running the show, it's still the same old stuff.

[Christine Grice]

Yes, I realise that I contradicted myself

My main point was kinda answered by Rick. I said it was a good idea, the question was the ability to implament it.

[Rick Brown]

Man we really need to finalize the novice rules.

From the proposal:
g) Class results are based on the entrant’s best time multiplied by the National PAX/RTP Index for their SCCA Solo II class plus any penalty. This index is listed in Appendix C.

i) For cars with Stock, Street Prepared and Prepared Indexes: All cars running tires with a treadwear rating of 140 or higher will receive an additional PAX of .975 over their car’s standard PAX. The use of street tires must be indicated on the registration card.

So much was talked about on how to keep the novice competitive all year long so one "could" start late and still have a chance of winning and nothing is in writing and posted!

Even with new people running the show, it's still the same old stuff.

OK, so the stock classes with the extra .975 already exist. I can make the additional classes, but a Prepared car on 140+ tires?

[Leonard Cachola]

I do want to note that the SK street tire index is .98, which is different from the Historic one of .975.

[Will Kalman]

Even with new people running the show, it's still the same old stuff.

And the same people griping about it while not volunteering to do anything about it. :no smiley:

Write up the document and send it so you can save the volunteers some time. Or is it too hard to find the word processor icon when you're doing this ?

[Aaron Goldsmith]

Even with new people running the show, it's still the same old stuff.

And the same people griping about it while not volunteering to do anything about it. :no smiley:

Write up the document and send it so you can save the volunteers some time. Or is it too hard to find the word processor icon when you're doing this ?

Hey! That's my line..

[Michael Sullivan]

I think we have taken some positive steps in encouraging novices...

1. An overall novice class winner.
2. CST

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Right ... so things need to be changed

We're trying to encourage novices. Imo, they should be allowed to run in a street tire class, which is where most novice would run, and still be in the running for the Novice Championship.

How many drivers are running the Novice Championship?

OK, I get your point, but your statement that Novice doesn't have an index is incorrect. It has every class index that exists. But don't get me wrong, if it's doable it makes sense.

As for Tad, A) he's got some talent and, II) he's in a well-prepared car. Your proposal might not make much difference in this case.

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

So much was talked about on how to keep the novice competitive all year long so one "could" start late and still have a chance of winning and nothing is in writing and posted!

Even with new people running the show, it's still the same old stuff.

BECAUSE THIS IS ALL VOLUNTEER WORK AND PEOPLE HAVE JOBS AND LIVES OUTSIDE OF THIS GLENN

So why don't YOU do something about it and get up off your ass instead of bitch and moan about it. You're the Divisional Solo Steward, act like you're a professional.

[Glenn Duensing]

Even with new people running the show, it's still the same old stuff.

And the same people griping about it while not volunteering to do anything about it. :no smiley:

Write up the document and send it so you can save the volunteers some time. Or is it too hard to find the word processor icon when you're doing this ?

Another person was asked to do the write-up along with the other changes. A couple things needed to be hashed out.

Busy on SoPac stuff.

[Glenn Duensing]

So much was talked about on how to keep the novice competitive all year long so one "could" start late and still have a chance of winning and nothing is in writing and posted!

Even with new people running the show, it's still the same old stuff.

BECAUSE THIS IS ALL VOLUNTEER WORK AND PEOPLE HAVE JOBS AND LIVES OUTSIDE OF THIS GLENN

So why don't YOU do something about it and get up off your ass instead of bitch and moan about it. You're the Divisional Solo Steward, act like you're a professional.

You should really take your own advice Gio...

edit: BTW if one needs or wants help, ask. Info and stuff was done in Nov and now it's late March and still not up.

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

You should really take your own advice Gio...

edit: BTW if one needs or wants help, ask. Info and stuff was done in Nov and now it's late March and still not up.

I'm not the one bitching and moaning about "where the novice rules are, etc...etc....", nor do I complain about things not being done. When membership processes were in disarray, I didn't say a word and just implemented a new system to make it easier for the members (i.e. PayPal). What have YOU done lately Glenn?? (where's that smiley for "sound of crickets")