Help me find my next autox car

[Elizabeth Bacon]

Long time no speak, dear CalClub Solo2 friends!! I've missed you all.

It's been three and a half years since I left LA and moved to Portland, Oregon. I had an enjoyable 2006 season here. But it's been two and a half years now since I sold my fantastic '99 Miata (with all its go-fast parts courtesy of Ken Motonishi and a distinguished lineage before that). Not-so-coincidentally, it's also been two and a half years since my daughter Evelyn was born!!

I've poked my nose into this forum a few times just to bask in the glow of the autox geekery. But after saying that 2008 was the year I would return to autocross, here it's 2009 and I can't stay away any longer! I am *always* dreaming about my next car and I've perused National results to try and find some good candidates. You all were so amazingly helpful with my last choice and so I'm turning to you again for guidance.

I'm interested in staying in a Stock class, unless somebody can help point me toward an already-well-set-up STU or STX ride. I know that Stock takes prep too, but it feels more doable somehow, despite the hell of changing wheels. So here's what's at the top of my list:

2002-2004 Corvette Z06
2004-2007 RX-8
2005-2007 Mini Cooper S

I had salivated over the M3 (which model though?) and the Boxster S, but both seem to be uncompetitive now. Plus the Boxster has those custom wheel problems, and I don't have a large budget (does anybody these days?) either.

Thoughts, oh dear well-informed folks?? Especially if you agree those are good cars, I need help with what kind of packages to look for in the general used car market. I'm also happy for leads on winning autox rides that are on the market! I'm not sure where to look these days.

Cheers,
Liz

[Jason Isley BS RX8]

Here you go: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t ... hlight=edj" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jason Uyeda]

YO!... What up?

Here's a few more you might want to look at...

- Base Cayman for AS (mid to low 30s)
- 01-03 S2k for AS (mid to high teens)
- S2000 CR (mid 20s)
- '07 MSR for CS (http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/329123.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
- 986 Boxster S (mid to low 20s)

I still think the Boxster S is a good AS car (I happen to know where a good one is ), but the base Cayman is probably better and the new base Cayman will likely be the best car in the class when/if it shows up with an LSD (even w/o is it a better car). Last I checked used Boxster/Cayman wheels were pretty easy to find.

I also happen to know where there's a good STU Evo, but I would never recommend street tires to a friend.

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

I had salivated over the M3 (which model though?)

Liz good to hear from you. As for the beloved M3.....back in the "days" it was chassis' E30 or E36. I now have the E46 M3, and while it is a fun beautiful luxury/sports car, you'd have to throw a LOT of money at it to be somewhat competitive in STU (finally they let in the E46 into this class for 2009). And forget about it in ASP. It's just TOO heavy a car.

So with that said I was in your dilemma and the cars that I was thinking of were:

• Honda S2000 CR (Club Racer) edition
• Porsche Cayman (not the S version)

Listen to Uyeda. As for another stock class....well there's that spec-class (aka B-Stock) with Mazda RX-8s. Isley knows them well (4 time Nat'l champ) and relatively inexpensive.

Good luck.

[Mako Koiwai]

Howdy! ... we're still pushing your First ProSolo article on the novices! Congrats on your own newbie! Were developing quite the Jr. Karting scene.

Lately we've had members switching to used Z-06's and used S2000's ... hardly any Suby's left in Team Blew! Z-06's beg for R tires ... and they're EXPENSIVE these days! S2000 seems like an excellent compromise. Pete recently got a used CR S2000 with only about 8K on it for something like $23K. The CR is THE model to get.

As you probably know, the EXPERT in buying cars, Annie Bauer ... went from a nice used Z-06 (not great in Seattle's rain) to a new '09 WRX (possible DS contender ... but not enough zest for her) to a used '06 STI (now in full STU trim) plus turned her Boxster S into a Cayman (S?) ... all in about six months! Hmmm ... maybe she doesn't know anything and HAS to just try them ALL out!

"Our" '99 Miata's are no longer THE car to have is CS ... so we've turned it into a local SST car ... experimental class for cars that don't have a National Street Tire class, prepped to STU rules.

Liz in her wild days ...



Liz (back to us, with Ann) doing Interpretative Cone Calling Dancing:

[Steve Ekstrand]

After seeing Pete Loney's S2000CR in person.... I got to think that is the best stock class bang for the buck right now.

[George Schilling]

After seeing Pete Loney's S2000CR in person.... I got to think that is the best stock class bang for the buck right now.

Hi LIz., Good to hear from you.

After driving Pete's Loney's S2000CR, I'd have to agree. They're great right out of the box.

If I find a nice one before you, I may have a beautiful fully prepped 2003 S2000 for sale.

[Kurt Rahn]

After seeing Pete Loney's S2000CR in person.... I got to think that is the best stock class bang for the buck right now.

Hi LIz., Good to hear from you.
After driving Pete's Loney's S2000CR, I'd have to agree. They're great right out of the box.
If I find a nice one before you, I may have a beautiful fully prepped 2003 S2000 for sale.

The MX-5 MSR sounds pretty sweet too...wish I could fit into one.

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

After seeing Pete Loney's S2000CR in person.... I got to think that is the best stock class bang for the buck right now.

After riding shotgun with Pete for one lap on R-Comps it was smooth as butter in the turns with nice grip but no feeling the car was at the limits of adhesion. Just a lot of bite into the El Toro concrete.

[Elizabeth Bacon]

Oh, man, those S2000's have always seemed too squirrelly! Are you telling me this CR model has tamed its unpredictable-hell-cat nature? (No offense to all you S2000 lovers out there!)

I do have to say that our Portland courses, with the exception of Packwood (2 1/2 hours drive to the north & actually in Washington), are held on very small lots. The 'Vettes don't really get put through their paces, while Minis & Miatas have lots of fun.

Few questions:

Jason I., aka BS champion (tee-hee) -- Hiya! Are you saying that a base model RX-8 to which I could add a "Custom adjustable front anti-sway bar (12mm end links) & Koni yellow single adjustable shocks" would be the shite? Should I actively stay away from a Grand Touring or Sport package?

Jason U -- Hallo!! Are you suggesting your Boxster S might be on the market if a dear old friend came calling? I totally adore the sound of the Cayman but it's pricey as all get-out. Did I ever mention my vow to myself in 4th grade, that I would own a Porsche someday? A dream yet to be lived!

Cheers,
Liz

P.S. Thanks for the pix, Mako! That interpretive dance (aka yoga) really works!!
P.P.S. Somebody needs to make those emoticons less accessible to my mouse.

[Steve Ekstrand]

I used to fear the S2000's until I drove one on R-Compounds.... Then the skies parted and the angels sang to me....

[Jamie Lessie]

2002-2004 Corvette Z06
2004-2007 RX-8
2005-2007 Mini Cooper S

I am amazed at what a stock Rx-8 can do. Cool thing is, if you buy a used one you are covered by Mazda eight years or 100,000 miles on the drivetrain. Pop your engine, it is on them that is, unless it is still attached to a supercharger! If you take car of it though, It shouldn't give you problems. It is not the rotary that has been unreliable, it is the people driving them.

I drive an Rx-7 and am jealous at what cool toys are out for the 8. The "Dude logger device" has to be my favorite. Can't beat the price either. I was going to get my brother one for Christmas but I am worried he would be able to kick my butt even more Can you run that thing is a stock class? It is just recording data so it is ok, right?

http://www.pettitracing.com/rx8/index_management.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Let us know what you get.

[Sebastian Rios]

Hey Liz! Good to hear from you again.

I have to agree that Pete's S2K CR is sweet! The MS-R is too hard to do, the CR can be bought off the lot.
S2000 on worn Azenis = no fun...S2000 on r-comps = loads of fun!

[Pete Loney]

Some first hand CR info:

2008 CR's made for USDM = 681
2008 CR's in Grand Prix White w/ AC/Radio = 75
2008 CR's in Grand Prix White, w/ NO radio/AC = 7

Mine is #8/75 in white and #114/681 for 2008 model year. Rare cars are cooler!

The AP2/CRs have a low second gear, 55MPH, good for smallish lots like you described Liz.

Honda Dealers are dealing I hear from chatter on http://www.s2ki.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
Work 'em for a few weeks and they may go as low as 28K for a new 2008 CR, one that has been there for a while.

I recently just found excellent lightweight wheels in 17 inch for my CR too.
Sorry George, your advantage there is now gone
Tirerack has a new OZ wheel in the perfect offset for stock class and only $1260 shipped!!
14 and 15 lbs respectively.


Correction to Mako's statement, mine only had 4200 miles on it. Got it for $23k +Tax + Title.

[Mako Koiwai]

Thanks ... sounded too good to be true!

[Jason Isley BS RX8]

Jason I., aka BS champion (tee-hee) -- Hiya! Are you saying that a base model RX-8 to which I could add a "Custom adjustable front anti-sway bar (12mm end links) & Koni yellow single adjustable shocks" would be the shite? Should I actively stay away from a Grand Touring or Sport package?

That just happened to be a very competitive car that I knew was for sale. You don't need the custom front bar, he was just a very early RX-8 adopter, and the aftermarket support was not there at the time - now there are over a dozen bars to choose from. However, many people have gone very fast on the stock bar, and it would be suited very well for the tighter courses you get in the NW.

Off the shelf Koni sports are all you need, no custom stuff required. Stay away from the GT, it weighs about 85lbs more. The base or sport are the way to go. The nice thing about the base is no traction control, so you wont forget to turn it off before a run.

[Jason Uyeda]

Oh, man, those S2000's have always seemed too squirrelly! Are you telling me this CR model has tamed its unpredictable-hell-cat nature? (No offense to all you S2000 lovers out there!)

I do have to say that our Portland courses, with the exception of Packwood (2 1/2 hours drive to the north & actually in Washington), are held on very small lots. The 'Vettes don't really get put through their paces, while Minis & Miatas have lots of fun.

Few questions:

Jason U -- Hallo!! Are you suggesting your Boxster S might be on the market if a dear old friend came calling? I totally adore the sound of the Cayman but it's pricey as all get-out. Did I ever mention my vow to myself in 4th grade, that I would own a Porsche someday? A dream yet to be lived!

A well setup S2000 won't be that bad, may be frustrating at times due to the Torsen... If you're going to be running mostly on slower courses (relative to SoCal which I know your familiar with) then an S2000 probably makes the most sense. In an early AP1 you might need to do a fair amount of shifting down to 1st, but in that car it's extremely rewarding. In an AP2 you can likely grind it out in 2nd thanks to the much shorter second. If your not hugely worried about winning Nationals right now, any AP2 will be competitive. FWIW, my mid 25k figure for the CR was for a brand new one, I've seen more than a few in the 26k range and know they will deal (but can you deal with the silly spoiler and wing?). Even at 27k a CR is a really good deal...

A 986 Boxster S or Cayman will be at it's worst on slower courses. They have a really tall second... Not so sure about the Cayman (probably similar) but they are also tire-eaters; as is the Mini, not that I'd ever recommend FWD to a friend . A Solstice GXP (not sure if there's only a specific year for the Z0K or if that doesn't apply to the GXP) may also be a good car for your region but I'd still lean towards the S2k.

If you really want a Porsche I'd recommend waiting a year or two (or however long it takes) and buying a 996 GT3 or 987 09+ Cayman S w/LSD when the prices come down...

[Jason Isley BS RX8]

I am amazed at what a stock Rx-8 can do. Cool thing is, if you buy a used one you are covered by Mazda eight years or 100,000 miles on the drivetrain.

Only the engine internals and case get the 100k warranty. The rest of the drivetrain (trans/diff) are only covered 60k.

[Robert Puertas]

Liz, if for some insane reason you decide you prefer the vacuum of torque known as the RX-8 over the sheer joy of a Z06, you should contact Tom Kotzian in Portland.
He has an RX-8 that he bought and fully prepped, and it's just sitting in his garage because it's no fun to drive compared to his Vette.
}:)

[Jason Isley BS RX8]

Liz, if for some insane reason you decide you prefer the vacuum of torque known as the RX-8 over the sheer joy of a Z06, you should contact Tom Kotzian in Portland.
He has an RX-8 that he bought and fully prepped, and it's just sitting in his garage because it's no fun to drive compared to his Vette.
}:)

Oh yeah, forgot about Tom's car. Konis, OZ wheels, V710s, low miles.

The RX-8 is just a fat MX-5, if you can live with that you will enjoy it. If however, you expect the pedal on the right to be anything but a footrest you should pass.

[Elizabeth Bacon]

You guys rock! I'll take a good hard look-see at the S2000.

And it's pretty funny that I'm so out of the loop that you guys know that PDX hotshoe Tom Kotzian is selling his RX-8! He asked me if I wanted to buy it towards the end of the '06 season and I never supposed he'd still have it today. I *was* quite delighted to drive a Miata, and have always had Jason's description of the RX-8 ("a bigger Miata") bouncing around happily in my mind. Plus, I still think its fenders are sexy.

Cheers,
Liz

P.S. So great to hear all your voices again.... Maybe I'll make it down for a SoCal event this year if I can line up the right clients at the right time, and beg a ride! I've been running my own consulting biz for almost two years now.

[Robert Puertas]

Tom just called me looking for a co-drive for the SD Tour and ET Pro.

I told him you were shopping for a new car...

Good luck!

[Jeff Ringer]

the low mid engine box s has the best physical dynamics which equal big thrills, they simply drive, feel , and sound amazing. ap1 s2k are also very fun especially when you must shift to 1st. i think this only adds to the fun factor and challenge

if i were spending 15k for an autox car it has to be the s2000 . i like the cr but would save the 10k premium.. AS always looks like a fun full class to run and the honda probably has lower operating costs then the porsche while offering more thrills over the miata or rx8

not a fan of front drive cars for sport

just my 2 cents

good luck with the shopping!!

[Max Hayter]

Tom just called me looking for a co-drive for the SD Tour and ET Pro.

I told him you were shopping for a new car...

Good luck!

Offer him up your GTO

[Jack Tsou]

Are those big 19" 911 wheels legal to run on the Caymans?