Have AX Karters Tried Wheel 2 Wheel Karting ?

[Mako Koiwai]

Personally, If I was running a Kart ... I'd go wheel to wheel racing. Just seems like our courses aren't typically "right" for karting ... bumps and all. I can see running kids in karts at AX's in order to get the kids involved, but grown "single" people ... would seem to enjoy "real" kart racing more?

I've only done one "real" kart race, as part of a four person team in a 8 hour endurance event. 100 cc. sprint karts. Exhausting for someone not practiced (a couple of Jim Hall Jr. karting classes) but such a blast. The thing that would keep me out of karting ... having to wear all of that heavy hot protective gear in our climate!

[Steve Ekstrand]

Wheel to wheel is a lot more expensive (bent up and worn out chassis). And more risk. But yeah, looks intense, just not for old beat up fat people.

Robert watched the 5-7 year olds run and he lit up like I've never seen him. He wants so badly to pass kids (not so much be passed). I'm not pleased with what I know of the 5-7 kid kart world. At Sunday's race the same driver punted the same kid 3 times finally putting him hard in the barrier, totaling the kart chassis and bruising the kid. Officials sanctioned the angry dad who complained and not the kid regularly running others off track. And cheating is off the charts. 1.8hp spec tire and gear Kid karts are doing 39+mph. At least the top 1 or 2 are. That is theoretically impossible without cheating.

I didn't think I'd go there, but Robert has shown a lot. He's ready to race. I hate the idea of throwing him to that cesspool, but.... And hate having to figure out the cheating.

[Randy Chase]

I have done both a lot. Wheel to wheel kart racing and also F125 autocrossing and see it differently.

I think shifter karts are perfect for autocrossing. Bumps? Many tracks are bumpy too. I don't mind the bumps in the kart. Though getting 4 wheels airborne at Forbes back in the day was a little exciting.

The downdside for W2W karts is that stuff happens. And when a kart contacts another kart, bad things can happen. When we did the endurance kart racing, it seemed like about one accident a day would happen and someone would go flying out of the kart or into the hay bales. When running against that 19 year old kid, he may not be thinking like me, that I have a job I need to be able to go to the next day.

Now track days in karts? Awesome. Cars can't compare IMO. I loved the track days.

[Giovanni Jaramillo]

I didn't think I'd go there, but Robert has shown a lot. He's ready to race. I hate the idea of throwing him to that cesspool, but.... And hate having to figure out the cheating.

Steve, based on how loving you are with your son, and your "personality", I'd stay away from that cesspool of karting with kids. If you thought little league baseball was bad...talk to Larry Andrews or Eric Nelson. They'll give you the "real deal" of what goes on in W2W karting. But with all that said yeah it is fun for sure so if you go into it with your son just beware.

When running against that 19 year old kid, he may not be thinking like me, that I have a job I need to be able to go to the next day.

BINGO!!!

Randy nails it SPOT-ON! The young punk teenager who THINKS he's going to be the next Lewis Hamilton/Schumacher/Alonso in F1 or Helio Castronieves/Danica Patrick/Scott Dixon in IRL, will run over anyone and doesn't care, because he wants a contract!!! He doesn't have a "real job" with responsibilities (i.e. family, etc...). I'd rather W2W in sports car with a rollbar and cage and HANS device.

Now track days in karts? Awesome. Cars can't compare IMO. I loved the track days.

Now this beats open track day in car HANDS DOWN! And as for auto-x.....karting is IDEAL for it. And much more difficult navigating a sea of cones than an open track unless you're W2W then you have to worry about being punted into the wall.

[Reijo Silvennoinen]

When running against that 19 year old kid, he may not be thinking like me, that I have a job I need to be able to go to the next day.

That' about sums it up for me as well. It is fun to be sure....but look at what you can lose.

Reijo

[John Kestler]

Wow. Big can of worms there Mako.
Where do I start?
Yes it's great fun and you learn so much "race craft". Yes, it's more expensive. Yes it is EXTREMELY competitive. Yes there is cheating but they have gotten much more vigilant in the last decade.
I used to run with LAKC when they raced at Saugus speedway. I remember some of the child prodigies and some of the wannabes. The wannabes had the loud and obnoxious dad who yelled at everyone who caused his son not to win...in the meanwhile his son was punting people left and right. The prodigies where Richie Hearn, Mike Groff, Alex Baron, Memo Gidley, and later Joey Hand and Bill Auberland. They just raced and kicked everyone's butt legally.
The kid karts have very strict rules and I've seen the winner of most races I've looked into get torn down and inspected. There IS blueprinting which is important to be done by a master such as Mike Manning. The kids have to learn to have no fear and never touch the brakes or lift...they also apparently pump the tires up rock hard since the kids are so light.
Do i want to subject my kids to the "cesspool"? No, not unless they where bugging me everyday to go racing....it's much cheaper cause they're not.
Shifter karts? The most intense racing you can do this side of F1- no joke! I did 125 shifters for three years. More adults for some reason too.
Most kart clubs have "Senior" or "Master" classes. The Seniors usually have higher weight minimums, so less serious kids. The masters usually have an age minimum and is generally for the Dads. Senior Sportsman used to be a good mellow class. The best thing to do is check out an event and talk to the race director and see what the vibe seems to be.
David Jimenez usually directs the LAKC races at Cal Speedway. Introduce yourself and see what you think.

Tri-county karters are running a street race in Lancaster this weekend...the event should be HUGE. I'm going with the kids to watch.
http://www.streetsoflancastergrandprix.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Steve Ekstrand]

John-

You know the kid kart rules. How does one go 39.9 mph.... legally. I'm not buying LAKC's top runners are legal. Watching from a far, but I can do basic math.

[John Kestler]

John-

You know the kid kart rules. How does one go 39.9 mph.... legally. I'm not buying LAKC's top runners are legal. Watching from a far, but I can do basic math.

I can assure you that the kid karts are torn down at the blink of an eye (In LAKC or Willow Springs Kart Club). The gears are fixed. The carbs and jetting are fixed. The exhaust is fixed. I can assure you that some of those kids are just scary fast and don't yet know fear.
You can show me the math if it makes you feel better? I've never seen any hp numbers on the Comer c-51..I think 1.9hp might be low. The gears are fixed in kid karts. You also need the RPM they are capable of running (blueprinted).

[Steve Ekstrand]

The speed is taken at the start finish at Calspeed. Its a long straight and downhill. Not really skill or HP.

Its purely RPM. And ONE guy has it. One guy is second. And then there is the field. I'm not impressed that 17,000 rpm kid is the next Schumacher. But I could be wrong.

What is confusing though is I've watched the same kart that rules top speed also out accelerate the rest of the field dramatically.... Every time. I'm not convinced that if you stuck wunderkid in Robert's kart he wouldn't be a midpacker. I haven't seen any miraculous corner action. And I've never seen a pass, he hasn't needed to.