Got another ticket for 90mph to a 65 zone

[Christos Adam]

A couple of days ago I was driving back from Pasadena.
Pasadena – Thousand Oaks is about 50 miles and when I take this route (especially at night - 12 am this past Tuesday) I’m trying to be on the phone so that I forget how boring it is driving 65 mph in a deserted 4 lane FWY… this time though I wanted to go home a bit earlier and I also felt like driving a bit. So I took the right lane (which the police doesn’t screen as often) and I was doing around 85 mph;
I had my radar detector on and with my eyes I was constantly screening my rearview mirror.
Just a few miles later I saw a car slowly approaching in my rear view mirror.
It was very far away (~1/4mile) but since I’m always very careful I decided to change lanes (I was at the second lane passing a truck and I went to first lane to the right) and slow down using the E-brake.

As soon as I did that, the car far behind me (which as you guessed was a police car) turn on their pursue lights and started accelerating towards me – at that point I stepped on my brakes and decelerated even harder…
Windows down, engine off, hands on the steering wheel and the regular process which I’m becoming alarmingly familiar lately.
To my surprise the police officer issued me a ticket for speeding (22349 not 50) – even though to me he shouldn’t be able to pace me from so far away.
In the ticket he is mentioning that he used the patrol vehicle to verify my speed – which according to the ticket was 90mph.
I was very friendly with them – never admitted guilt but I asked him if he can give me a warning or lower the claiming speed and he denied saying that “you were going 25mph over the limit and you are getting a ticket”.
On top of that I had to listen to him explaining that my seat belts won’t save me in a 90mhp accident and that he doesn’t want to scoop me over the streets (basically he wanted to save me – he didn’t care about the ticket money).
He also had me taken the breathalyzer test after telling him that I had a glass of wine – which of course (according to him) was way below any limits.

Here is my situation:
I have had 3 tickets during the last 2 years (this will be the 4th) and I managed to get 12 hours of traffic school (which I still haven’t turned back in).
My current plan is to do my traffic school next week and then deal with this case individually with the usual approach (TBD, Court, etc).

Would you suggest anything different?
e.g. postpone the traffic school and then see if I can get another traffic school to erase everything from my record?
What is the minimum cost for a lawyer? Should I consider hiring one for this case? (This is a reckless driving case, right?)
Does anyone know from how far away can a police car accurately pace your speed? Are there any guidelines? How can I prove my case - meaning that the police car was 1/4 mile away from me and not crapping my rear bumper? Can I request the police video?

Thanks
Chris

[Bob Pl]

I think you want to do what you can to NOT go before a judge, as he/she will tag you with being a "repeat offender" without doubt. So work the system, smarter guys than myself will soon chime in. Good luck, it's a BS ticket as you were not endangering anyone including yourself. I don't think it's reckless driving unless he coded the ticket that way, you need to look uo the definition of the EXACT code on the ticket.

[Marshall Grice]

get a traffic lawyer.

[Steve Ekstrand]

SLOW DOWN!!!!

[Steve Towers]

SLOW DOWN!!!!

What Mr. Ekstrand said

Last moving I got was in 1968, just outside Newport News, Virginia. Got tagged for 138 in 55. Night in jail, $250 fine, license for a year (yes, they coordinated with California). All of that on the $93 a month an Army PFC got at that time. Yea, I was gassed, but I was on the loneliest road on the planet (I thought) at about 3 am. If I hadn't had to slow to make the turn onto the entry road to the base I'm not sure how it might have played out. Probably posting this note via Angel Express.

[Thomas Smith]

Got tagged for 138 in 55.

[Will Kalman]

For a 50 mile trip:

At 100mph: 30 minutes
At 85mph: 35 minutes
At 70mph: 42 minutes (and very low chance of a ticket)
At 65mph: 46 minutes (and ZERO chance of a ticket)

You're getting tickets and spending hundreds upon hundreds of dollars (ticket fine, traffic school, increased insurance) to save 7 minutes? Bad deal, dude. Just slow down.

Is it really so unbearable to drive for 42 minutes on an empty freeway? I don't understand that at all.

[Jeff Shyu]

For a 50 mile trip:

At 100mph: 30 minutes
At 85mph: 35 minutes
At 70mph: 42 minutes (and very low chance of a ticket)
At 65mph: 46 minutes (and ZERO chance of a ticket)

You're getting tickets and spending hundreds upon hundreds of dollars (ticket fine, traffic school, increased insurance) to save 7 minutes? Bad deal, dude. Just slow down.

Is it really so unbearable to drive for 42 minutes on an empty freeway? I don't understand that at all.

this is exactly why i stopped speeding (as much). i got a GPS/nav, and it told me the arrival time based upon the ground speed. the difference between 90mph (asking for a ticket on the 5), vs 79 mph, was the amount of time it takes me to make a gas stop and let the dog out to pee.

it wasn't like i was saving myself a whole lotta time.

[Christos Adam]

Guys I appreciate your comments and that's the same advice that I give to my gf whenever she drives to Thousand Oaks and back - don't speed is not worth it for 15 min to pay $1000 ... but we are humans and sometimes you are "what the heck I want to go a bit faster today" - well I picked the wrong day for that }:) and I'm old enough to face the consequences of my actions.
... and since my time machine broke down I can't change anything at this moment so all of my efforts are on how to minimize the effect of my actions.


Any advice from your side regarding my pending driving school?
Do they give traffic school in such big violations (25 over the limit)? Should I opt not to do my traffic school so I can request traffic school and wipe out everything?
Do I have any chance supporting myself in the court?
Do you know any lawyer that he won't break my bank account (feel free to PM)?

[Jeff Shyu]

they always give traffic schools, just a matter of the "perks".

level 1 traffic school basically pretends the incident never happened. level 2 is for people who are at risk of having their license suspended. Level 2 still reports to the DMV (and your ins), but you get to keep your license. At least i think that's how it works. You'd have to ask Shaun on the specifics

chance to defend yourself in court? there's always a chance, really depends on your circumstances.

I got out of a 90 in a 45 zone, but it was on PCH just south of seal beach, 2 lane, no cross traffic, and changing speed limits, etc. I wasn't cited with the maximum speed code though.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

You need to resolve the current traffic school thing ASAP and then delay the other one as long as possible. Then get a lawyer to fight the other one. Officer's too far away to accurately pace in my opinion and obviously he sped up to catch you and when he got to 90 he decided that was the speed he'd use. It doesn't prove you were going 90.

By the time you're done with the tickets you've gotten you will have spent enough to have upgraded your turbo setup. If for no other reason, slow down. 90 isn't worth it unless you absolutely need to get from Stockton to LA in under five hours }:) or Long Beach to Phoenix in under four. }:) }:)

Whenever traffic is light and I see a vehicle closing the gap, my first thought is whether it's a cop. In this situation you got nailed because you changed lanes and didn't slow down enough, quickly enough. Need to get off the gas completely, not just e-brake.

Sermonette from the cop is his way of keeping you there longer to rub it in that you got nailed. Sucks to sit through that.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

I got out of a 90 in a 45 zone, but it was on PCH just south of seal beach, 2 lane, no cross traffic, and changing speed limits, etc. I wasn't cited with the maximum speed code though.

By the wetlands. People love to open it up there which, in turn, attracts the CHP.

[Jeff Shyu]

i was on the motorcycle then, which drops from 90mph to 50 pretty fast just by chopping the throttle. }:)

[Christos Adam]

You need to resolve the current traffic school thing ASAP and then delay the other one as long as possible. Then get a lawyer to fight the other one. Officer's too far away to accurately pace in my opinion and obviously he sped up to catch you and when he got to 90 he decided that was the speed he'd use. It doesn't prove you were going 90.

By the time you're done with the tickets you've gotten you will have spent enough to have upgraded your turbo setup. If for no other reason, slow down. 90 isn't worth it unless you absolutely need to get from Stockton to LA in under five hours }:) or Long Beach to Phoenix in under four. }:) }:)

Whenever traffic is light and I see a vehicle closing the gap, my first thought is whether it's a cop. In this situation you got nailed because you changed lanes and didn't slow down enough, quickly enough. Need to get off the gas completely, not just e-brake.

Sermonette from the cop is his way of keeping you there longer to rub it in that you got nailed. Sucks to sit through that.

I was off the throttle and pulled the e-break right away and he was as far as I could see behind me...
Not only he gave me the talk (that it's unsafe for me doing 90 on my Audi but perfectly normal for him to do 100 on his crown vic) but he also laugh at my for having a radar detector at my dash saying" did that thing helped you today" - and of course I didn't say "no because you were cheating pacing me for 5 miles away" but "I don't even know if this thing work - a friend of mine gave it to me "

[Christos Adam]

they always give traffic schools, just a matter of the "perks".

level 1 traffic school basically pretends the incident never happened. level 2 is for people who are at risk of having their license suspended. Level 2 still reports to the DMV (and your ins), but you get to keep your license. At least i think that's how it works. You'd have to ask Shaun on the specifics

chance to defend yourself in court? there's always a chance, really depends on your circumstances.

I got out of a 90 in a 45 zone, but it was on PCH just south of seal beach, 2 lane, no cross traffic, and changing speed limits, etc. I wasn't cited with the maximum speed code though.

My pending traffic school is already level II... I guess now I need a level III

[Jeff Shyu]

actually, i think you can have an unlimited number of level 2. again, you should ask shaun for 1st hand info..

[Bob Beamesderfer]

I was off the throttle and pulled the e-break right away and he was as far as I could see behind me...
Not only he gave me the talk (that it's unsafe for me doing 90 on my Audi but perfectly normal for him to do 100 on his crown vic) but he also laugh at my for having a radar detector at my dash saying" did that thing helped you today" - and of course I didn't say "no because you were cheating pacing me for 5 miles away" but "I don't even know if this thing work - a friend of mine gave it to me "

Damn, guess downshifting would be the only thing left. This was CHP, right.

Yeah, the Crown Vic doesn't have an unblemished safety record. He knows damn well that 90 and above will test the elasticity of steel in his car as certain as it will in the Audi.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

actually, i think you can have an unlimited number of level 2. again, you should ask shaun for 1st hand info..

Don't you need a certain time gap between schools?

Now I know why Shaun moved to Michigan for a couple of years, needed to launder his driving record.

[Bob Pl]

This is conjecture on my part, but I don't think you get to delay a traffic school date as long as possible "just in case" you get more tickets, so that you can make them all go away with one traffic school.

Just doesn't make sense to me.

I think Bob B is right on the circumstances of the cop catching up with you.
He VERY LIKELY guestimated your speed rather than clocked you. He will have to support his tickets with facts as to how he clocked you etc. Research this point, what defines clocking.

Call these guys, they have helped a few people I know, but have also struck out a few times.

http://www.mrtrafficticket.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you intend to actually dispute the facts of the case in court. NOW would be a good time to compile detailed notes on the stop. Time, precise location, when you saw his headlights, what your speed was, where you changed lanes, what new speed was etc etc.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

i was on the motorcycle then, which drops from 90mph to 50 pretty fast just by chopping the throttle. }:)

Hard braking used to trip the radar gun into reading it as a false signal and the reading would drop off the display. Cops hated that. I got bitched out in Colorado by a trooper while he wrote a warning. When he was done, I pointed out to him that I might not have hit the brakes as hard if he hadn't stepped into the right lane to point the gun at me. Dumb ass.

[Tom Berry]

I got a ticket similar to your several years ago. I was doing 80-ish coming down the Cajon pass. I saw the Chp behind me closing fast. I had slowed down to legal speed far before he got to me. He tells me that he had to do over 100mph to catch up to me. I just shut my mouth and took the ticket. In front of the judge he told the same story to which the judge replied " You cant determine the speed of the car you are coming up on by how fast you are going." and threw the case out. Now in all fairness.. I didnt have as many tickets on the books as you do. I would be inclined to go in front of the judge and say that the CHP did not tail you for any length of time, so it would be hard for him to determine your acual speed correctly. You might wanna cross your fingers for luck.
I also agree with the masses here..... Slow your ass down!

[George Schilling]

A couple years I came through the traffic circle in Long Beach going from nb PCH to nb Lakewood Blvd. The circle was clear and I probably went through it at 65 or so, but then slowed down to about 55 down Lakewood Blvd. A cop pulls me over just past Willow, yelling that he had to do 85 to catch me, insinuating that I was driving so fast, he had to put himself at risk to catch me. I got right back in his face and we argued for about 5 minutes. The fact is, he supplied me with my defense with what he said. I told him you can't pace someone when you're closing with out radar. After trading our opinions for about 5 minutes in a rather boisterous manner, he lets me off with warning.

So, Chris, if your guy didn't indicate radar on the ticket, I'd take you chances in court like Tom said. The risky part is that he may not testify truthfully as the cop did in Tom's case. But if you can get him to admit his closing speed, you may have a chance. Remember, it's up to him to prove your guilt. You don't have to take the stand. Save it for closing arguments. Talk only about the cops behavior, not yours.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Wait, you got this ticket a couple of days ago, as in the end of the month? That says something.

[Shaun Bailey]

Now I know why Shaun moved to Michigan for a couple of years, needed to launder his driving record.

This is not far from the truth...when I moved my lic was on probation, and now it's 100% clean! Note that only Alaska and Hawaii don't share driving records now. So you're screwed everywhere you run.

I won't tell the entire story of why I needed a lawyer, but when I had 4-points on my lic. and received two more in the course of a week a judge took away my lic. I found it necessary to hire a layer at that point. I found a good one. Not only did he have a judge's ruling rescinded and my lic. reinstated , he found a judge that would change a driving violation to a non points-inducing infraction for only an extra $100 in fees (clearly it's all about the money ). He works Orange County, but he's helped me with finding a lawyer in Nebraska when I got a ticket there. He may be able to help you.

Brian F. Doyle
Attorney at Law
3345 Newport Boulevard, Suite 200
Newport Beach, CA 92663
949.675.2464

Tell him Shaun from R&T sent you.

Good luck,
-Shaun

[Mike Shin]

Does anyone know from how far away can a police car accurately pace your speed? Are there any guidelines? How can I prove my case - meaning that the police car was 1/4 mile away from me and not crapping my rear bumper? Can I request the police video?

When Lily got a a ticket in my Evo awhile back, the CHP officer mentioned that their dash radar goes off when a car is tracked doing over 70 mph and measures the speed. As far as distance goes, if I remember correctly he was pacing at about the same distance from what CHP told us. So not sure if this is the same situation, but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to inquire if that kind of equipment was used.

Good luck.