Going off topic again... I wish this election was over.

[Steve Ekstrand]

That sounds like McCain-Palin Country.
We could use more members of sound mind and political taste.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

That sounds like McCain-Palin Country.
We could use more members of sound mind and political taste.

So, I'm not of sound mind? :mrt: You haven't "lost" yet but you're already sulking and acting like a victim. It's so beneath your intelligence it's appalling.

[Randy Chase]

I can't wait for the election to be over.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Imagine how you'd feel Randy living in a Battleground state with 24/7 political ads. My Nevada friends are going crazy.

[Jeff Shyu]

I'd like my vote to count for once.

I didn't like our system back when my vote "counted" by voting democrat. it's more frustrating this time around, that my anti-obama vote won't even matter since i live in California.

[Aaron Goldsmith]

I'd like my vote to count for once.

I didn't like our system back when my vote "counted" by voting democrat. it's more frustrating this time around, that my anti-obama vote won't even matter since i live in California.

What did they do to you Jeff, how did they get to you?! Just show us on the doll where Ekstrand touched you.

[Steve Ekstrand]

You lose the context... Just delete it if you're going to destroy it.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Your work will be tougher when the election is over.

You'll have to file lots of forms to deal with the new bureaucracies set up by the Pelosi-Obama regime.

You'll have to monitor subversive crackpots like me and George and set up structured equal time for champions of change like Beamesderfer.

And I'm sure their will be taxes to be paid...

[Christine Grice]

You lose the context... Just delete it if you're going to destroy it.

If I had deleted it you would have yelled about censorship or something . Someone complained that it was off topic so I moved it. If my case of "The Mondays" had been any worse, I would have just deleted it.

Plus, who said that off topic posts needed context?

[Jeff Shyu]

I'd like my vote to count for once.

I didn't like our system back when my vote "counted" by voting democrat. it's more frustrating this time around, that my anti-obama vote won't even matter since i live in California.

What did they do to you Jeff, how did they get to you?! Just show us on the doll where Ekstrand touched you.

i don't know, the more money my company pays me, the more I want to keep my money.

that's not really it though, i would have voted for another democrat this year, if another name was on the ticket.

Obama's an ultra-left liberal through and through. I liked Clinton and his social liberal, and fiscally conservative views (as close to Libertarian as I'm going to be able to find).

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Your work will be tougher when the election is over.

You'll have to file lots of forms to deal with the new bureaucracies set up by the Pelosi-Obama regime.

You'll have to monitor subversive crackpots like me and George and set up structured equal time for champions of change like Beamesderfer.

And I'm sure their will be taxes to be paid...

Paranoid crap.

I can already respond when I choose to do so, but the more outrageous the distortions you present, the more it becomes part of the big persecution complex, the less I want to involve myself. It's not a discussion anymore, it's just a diatribe.

The most ridiculous idea is that Democrats are less supportive of the First Amendment. The neo-cons McCain will surround himself with would love nothing more than to strip that section of the Constitution. IF McCain loses, it will be because he picked Palin and chose to inflame the right wing of the GOP, while turning his back on moderates

Don't forget Steve, Ohio and several other states still have those easily rigged electronic voting machines. Worked in Ohio last time to give W a second term. I have no reason to think rigging the election won't be tried again.

[Bill Schenker]

I'd like my vote to count for once.

I didn't like our system back when my vote "counted" by voting democrat. it's more frustrating this time around, that my anti-obama vote won't even matter since i live in California.

What did they do to you Jeff, how did they get to you?! Just show us on the doll where Ekstrand touched you.

Too funny! +3 Maxie!

[Steve Ekstrand]

The liberals figured the machines out. Hillary used it against Barack one time then the issue ended.

Barack is a scary guy. You think Karl Rove knew every trick, Barack or whoever is behind him seem to have learned the lessons well.

And McCain will surround himself with neo-cons??? Give me a break. Barack's line is Bush-McCain. Truth is the Neo-cons would have had McCain shot for treason or sedition. You know that Bobby Boy...

[Bob Beamesderfer]

The liberals figured the machines out. Hillary used it against Barack one time then the issue ended.

Barack is a scary guy. You think Karl Rove knew every trick, Barack or whoever is behind him seem to have learned the lessons well.

And McCain will surround himself with neo-cons??? Give me a break. Barack's line is Bush-McCain. Truth is the Neo-cons would have had McCain shot for treason or sedition. You know that Bobby Boy...

Then why he did cave in and pick Palin? He wanted he Lieberman, but the party said no. Who runs the GOP now? Right, the disciples of Karl Rove, to whom McCain will be beholden if he takes office.

McCain/Dole probably would have ensured his victory. I'm still expecting some sort of election day treachery by the DORs to ensure they remain in control of the executive. While the ACORN charges have been exaggerated in GOP ads, the purging of LEGITIMATE Democratic registrants from voting roles in certain battleground states goes on; add in the machines and Ohio goes to McC/P.

[Steve Ekstrand]

McCain has caved sure... He's a politician....

And you're afraid of a Rove dynasty???

With 64 democrat Senators and 78% of Congress in Pelosi's hands???

What exactly would scare you about a McCain presidency. Even if he died and Moose lady stepped in. This is all about Pelosi....

[Bob Beamesderfer]

McCain has caved sure... He's a politician....

And you're afraid of a Rove dynasty???

With 64 democrat Senators and 78% of Congress in Pelosi's hands???

What exactly would scare you about a McCain presidency. Even if he died and Moose lady stepped in. This is all about Pelosi....

Continuation of failed foreign policy initiatives, most important one being Afghanistan, which is once again on the brink. Mishandling of Iraq's transition to independence, continued arrogance and indifference toward allies and their concerns. McCain's very sudden and fluid approach to the economy, a subject he wasn't interested in a year ago. Wanting everyone to believe you know best how to handle foreign policy because of a prediction that the surge would work isn't enough.

Moose Lady is the neo-con's dream, ready to nuke any Islamic country, including our allies in the Middle East, along with North Korea. Ready to suspend habeous corpus by decree, inclined to keep the Justice Department as, if not more, politicized than Bush has made it. Her claims of being independent of the oil and gas industry are as false as the day is long. She'll placate them quietly just like she did in Alaska. She thinks the new stimulus package proposal is part of the bank bailout, not understanding the simple fact that what Bernanke is proposing is another few hundred dollars sent to taxpayers by the Treasury. But, her running mate thinks cutting taxes for the middle class is a government handout, but keeping the tax cut for the rich that Mr. Bush handed out will be some magic potion for the economy. It would if there were any consumers out there to buy what small and medium businesses make, but it's too late for that.

[Steve Ekstrand]

Tax cut for the rich??? Step away from the talking points Bob....

Here try factcheck

http://www.factcheck.org/dean_wrong_on_ ... x_cut.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Reijo Silvennoinen]

Palin has moose lips? ;)

Reijo

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Tax cut for the rich??? Step away from the talking points Bob....

Here try factcheck

http://www.factcheck.org/dean_wrong_on_ ... x_cut.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sure didn't feel like much of a cut. And here's why:

http://www.factcheck.org/here_we_go_aga ... s_tax.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Steve Ekstrand]

I like the large table in that link a lot. "Combined Effects..."

The cuts look pretty good and pretty fair to me. The main criticism if you read the link is that the 25% of families that pay NO FEDERAL TAX AT ALL, do not experience a cut. Well half of zero is still zero....

But be careful... The cuts aren't linear. I wish they were. I wouldn't even mind some progressive slope to the function. But since they aren't linear, you can game any example by carefully picking you're income levels.

We already have welfare and a reverse tax in the form of EIC handouts....

I don't view it as much of a criticism.

And I couldn't really care less how Bush's handlers write up their spin on the policy.

[Will Kalman]

Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100 If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers, he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33 But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,' but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!'

'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

The other thing Moose Lady would do is ensure the current executive branch's anti-science and pro-big oil policies.

Sure, drilling off shore and in the ANWR can be approved, but does that mean the oil companies will actually do it? Probably not until prices go back up. If they're not going to drill on the 60 million acres of leases they hold now, why would they spend a huge amount of money on off-shore platforms?

The current administration forced the CDC to delete all language having to do with condoms as a means of preventing HIV disease. It was part of the abstinence-only policy. That kind of moralistic, anti-science stance is exactly what can be expected from President Palin, and very likely if she's only Veep.

There are reports that she is doing her own maverick thing by resisting the control her McCain-chosen handlers are trying to impose. She's unhappy that the campaign went out and spent big dollars on high-end retail clothing without telling her, and now it becomes public through campaign spending documents and it looks bad. Some might say elitist. Even when I made a good salary, I couldn't afford to shop at Saks or Neiman-Marcus. And obviously because I believe in decent wages, a BASIC health care system that moves un- and under-insured out of emergency rooms for non-emergency care and into some kind of public or private family practice setting, I'm an elitist. Then there's my public school education, the student loans I got to go to a state university. If I'd known about those legacy admissions to Ivy League schools like W got, I might have tried going to Yale, but my dad, who graduated from the Divinity school, laughed when I brought it up.

Of course, before I went to that state university I worked such elite jobs as shipping clerk and warehouseman. After graduation, my status as an elitist led me to a job at two weekly newspapers make less than I made before college. Then I worked at a startup weekly that folded faster than the ink dried. That led to my prestigious temp position working as a construction site day laborer, sweeping floors when I wasn't pressed into doing what should have been done by higher-paid skilled workers, albeit those at the apprentice level. I also got to work for free for my ex-father-in-law's roofing company. Great gig to have in Phoenix in the summer. }:)

Just as soon as I get a job, that will mostly like pay 20-25% less than I made three years ago, I'll be sure to lord that over all the gee-shucks conservatives.

[Bob Beamesderfer]

Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

The very wealthy have plenty of ways to shelter themselves against taxes. None of the Congressional millionaires will want that to go away because it benefits them.

[Steve Ekstrand]

I'm very wealthy only under Barack's BS definitions....

Its the people making between $40K and $400K that will always be killed by the tax system. Less than that and its a socialist country. More than that and you begin to have options to shelter it more effectively.

[George Schilling]

The other thing Moose Lady would do is ensure the current executive branch's anti-science and pro-big oil policies.

Wonderful left wing talking points, unfortunately no basis in fact.

Sure, drilling off shore and in the ANWR can be approved, but does that mean the oil companies will actually do it? Probably not until prices go back up. If they're not going to drill on the 60 million acres of leases they hold now, why would they spend a huge amount of money on off-shore platforms?

Certainly you're smarter than this Bob. The ONLY place an oil company will and should drill is where there is a chance of making a decent profit. Of course that never enters the mind of lefties.

The current administration forced the CDC to delete all language having to do with condoms as a means of preventing HIV disease. It was part of the abstinence-only policy. That kind of moralistic, anti-science stance is exactly what can be expected from President Palin, and very likely if she's only Veep.

More lefty talking points. Unfortunately, neither McCain or Palin are Bush.

There are reports that she is doing her own maverick thing by resisting the control her McCain-chosen handlers are trying to impose. She's unhappy that the campaign went out and spent big dollars on high-end retail clothing without telling her, and now it becomes public through campaign spending documents and it looks bad. Some might say elitist. Even when I made a good salary, I couldn't afford to shop at Saks or Neiman-Marcus. And obviously because I believe in decent wages, a BASIC health care system that moves un- and under-insured out of emergency rooms for non-emergency care and into some kind of public or private family practice setting, I'm an elitist. Then there's my public school education, the student loans I got to go to a state university. If I'd known about those legacy admissions to Ivy League schools like W got, I might have tried going to Yale, but my dad, who graduated from the Divinity school, laughed when I brought it up.

Of course, before I went to that state university I worked such elite jobs as shipping clerk and warehouseman. After graduation, my status as an elitist led me to a job at two weekly newspapers make less than I made before college. Then I worked at a startup weekly that folded faster than the ink dried. That led to my prestigious temp position working as a construction site day laborer, sweeping floors when I wasn't pressed into doing what should have been done by higher-paid skilled workers, albeit those at the apprentice level. I also got to work for free for my ex-father-in-law's roofing company. Great gig to have in Phoenix in the summer. }:)

Just as soon as I get a job, that will mostly like pay 20-25% less than I made three years ago, I'll be sure to lord that over all the gee-shucks conservatives.

You've just summed up the difference between conservatives and lefties. The average lefty is angry. They feel they have been victimized and left out. I felt that way when affirmative action was implemented and my dream of being a union laborer after graduating high school was squashed. But I regrouped, and after paying my dues, I established a small but successful company. Your an intelligent guy. If you want to make more money, change your occupation. Start your own business. The only system in the world that allows someone like myself to emerge from poor beginnings to a relatively comfortable lifestyle is capitalism. Obama wants to destroy that. The result is everyone will be poor. It can happen faster than you than you think if we allow democrats to dominate government. I don't defend the Bush years, but I don't let that cloud the obvious fact that a democratic congress and a democratic president would be far more destructive.