Moderators: Mike Simanyi, Christine Grice, Rick Brown
The drag strip is on the other side of the speedway!Marshall Grice wrote: I have to say though it was quite impressive to lay out a course on nearly 1 million square feet and not have 1 straight away.
Quoted from Mark Daddio "there are no straights in solo, just connecting one corner to the next, except the start of a ProSolo"
hey i'd be cool with it if our index wasn't based on killing little civics on at least 1 straight.Eric Clements wrote:The drag strip is on the other side of the speedway!Marshall Grice wrote: I have to say though it was quite impressive to lay out a course on nearly 1 million square feet and not have 1 straight away.
we sheared our front sway bar into two pieces during one of our air displays. Kurt said, and I agree, that people will be finding broken stuff on their cars for months from that bump.Arthur Grant wrote: Liked the avoidance of torn up course or the bump. (found out after being under the car that I holed the pan on the drivers side on it).
, he just wished he wasn't stuck with a DP index while driving a SK2ES car on 4yr old tires.Results are proof enough, i say it again. It's really only an issue for the Indexed Classes. As a CASOC member I certainly don't complain, and I thought the course was fun.Eric Clements wrote:I didn't run this past weekend so don't have first hand knowledge of the course but the people I talked to said it was good. Jon liked it, he told us about his mad driving skills drifting mid-engine car
For those who missed it last time around, courses are supposed to biased towards handling and agility rather than speed or power. Clippage from the 2011 Solo rules
1.2.1 A Solo Event is a non-speed driving skill contest such as, but not limited to, autocrosses and slaloms. These events are run on short courses that emphasize car handling and agility rather than speed or power.
2.COURSE Solo courses should be open enough to allow good competition between larger and smaller cars, and should not emphasize high speed, power-to-weight ratio, extreme maneuverability, memory, or visual acu-ity.
Results show we did have good competition between larger and smaller cars. Solstice is wider than a Corvette and we all know the Civic is small. If the course was all one speed I can see that being less fun, but that's certainly better than the tight corners followed by open section courses that rewards having power and doesn't emphasize driving skill.
For the civic's, I bet it was nearly all one speed!! For QV and I it was close to being all one speed (slow) except he had to stop a couple of times because he was going backwards..... }:) }:)Eric Clements wrote:
If the course was all one speed I can see that being less fun, but that's certainly better than the tight corners followed by open section courses that rewards having power and doesn't emphasize driving skill.
Try an Evo on skinny street tires.Marshall Grice wrote:i know you're just kidding but turning down the power wouldn't fix our sucky lateral grip.Will Kalman wrote:
Besides, Marshall already stated, above, that horsepower was a disadvantage. Shoulda turned it down - LOL }:)
quick! to the SCCAForums to start a thread about combining ST with BSP because clearly they're just as fast as us!
Fun course, but wish the first and last slalom spacing was opened up about 5 feet!
Richard Jung wrote:
Try an Evo on skinny street tires.
The cross-hair marker is the turn before the wallom. Whether to call this speed range compressed or not is an interesting question. Most of us do not want to dig out of a 25mph corner often (if ever!) and 60mph in an ST car means that you're probably pushing the upper legal limit for faster ones. I heard the Berry Evo on the rev limiter on the way to the first 90-degree left. I show 1.1g turns (sucky lateral g's on 195-width street tires <grin>). Marshall, got a speed plot?Don Salyers wrote:I bet that there were ST cars with a difference of less than 10-12 mph from fastest to slowest----maybe 57-58 on the top and mid 40's to the high 40's on the bottom.
I, on the other hand, have never gone into a 4-wheel slide/drift as long as this past Sunday.Kurt Rahn wrote:I don't think I've ever understeered so continuously for that distance. I basically turned the wheel and left it in position, then controlled the understeer with the throttle. It was fun!John Stimson wrote:But that was a wicked fun sweeper, nonetheless.
Yeah, I had a fair amount of that on cold tires as well. The rear end desperately wanted to get to corner exits faster than the front end.Vincent Wong wrote:I, on the other hand, have never gone into a 4-wheel slide/drift as long as this past Sunday.
I'm not sure what you're arguing in favor of Will, but I did do a speed plot of every course we ever drove in the BMW since I started with Toby about half way through last year. Turns only once did we ever have a slower than 25mph corner, it was that course Guy did with the loop at the start and the super slow left hander. Almost every other course had a slowest corner on course that was between 25-30. The average slowest corner on course speed was 27.58mph, 27.9mph if you only count national courses.Will Kalman wrote:The cross-hair marker is the turn before the wallom. Whether to call this speed range compressed or not is an interesting question. Most of us do not want to dig out of a 25mph corner often (if ever!) and 60mph in an ST car means that you're probably pushing the upper legal limit for faster ones. I heard the Berry Evo on the rev limiter on the way to the first 90-degree left. I show 1.1g turns (sucky lateral g's on 195-width street tires <grin>). Marshall, got a speed plot?Don Salyers wrote:I bet that there were ST cars with a difference of less than 10-12 mph from fastest to slowest----maybe 57-58 on the top and mid 40's to the high 40's on the bottom.
37-59mph with one excursion to 62mph going into the first 90deg left. Worth noting that we hit our limiter 3mph early due to high slip ratio in the turn (only straight?) leading into the first 90deg turn.Will Kalman wrote: The cross-hair marker is the turn before the wallom. Whether to call this speed range compressed or not is an interesting question. Most of us do not want to dig out of a 25mph corner often (if ever!) and 60mph in an ST car means that you're probably pushing the upper legal limit for faster ones. I heard the Berry Evo on the rev limiter on the way to the first 90-degree left. I show 1.1g turns (sucky lateral g's on 195-width street tires <grin>). Marshall, got a speed plot?
You don't know what I'm arguing for because I'm not arguing for anything. Just looking at the data and pondering. Not all questions are leading ones.Aaron Goldsmith wrote:I'm not sure what you're arguing in favor of Will, but I did do a speed plot of every course we ever drove in the BMW since I started with Toby about half way through last year. Turns only once did we ever have a slower than 25mph corner, it was that course Guy did with the loop at the start and the super slow left hander. Almost every other course had a slowest corner on course that was between 25-30. The average slowest corner on course speed was 27.58mph, 27.9mph if you only count national courses.
People are always trying to change things. You give 'em an inch and they take a kilometer!Don Salyers wrote:Will, what's that crap------speed in MPH graphed against distance in Kilometers. I am losing respect--- }:) }:)
Will Kalman wrote:But Marshall is right that his BSP index is based on the assumption that there are straights where he can slaughter an ST Civic. Not really the same argument that Eric is making about the course style, which is however, a related factor. Making all courses like this last one would result in index adjustments where the Evo would be classed in FSP where it belongs - LOL!
exactly.Will Kalman wrote: But Marshall is right that his BSP index is based on the assumption that there are straights where he can slaughter an ST Civic. Not really the same argument that Eric is making about the course style, which is however, a related factor. Making all courses like this last one would result in index adjustments where the Evo would be classed in FSP where it belongs - LOL!
Where it would get beat by an EG civic!Will Kalman wrote: Making all courses like this last one would result in index adjustments where the Evo would be classed in FSP where it belongs - LOL!
Average low to high difference was almost exactly 40mph. Given away all my data for free today, haha.Will Kalman wrote:
You've clearly got more (and better kept) data than I do as I've been keeping it haphazardly over the last couple years and spread over several different cars (HS, CS, and ST), so I find it interesting. So given that information, do we consider this past course as having significant speed compression or not? I guess you could take your data and figure the ratio of highest speed to lowest speed for each course. Or the ratio of highest and lowest speeds to the average. And it doesn't take into account the number of accel/decel events on a given course. Maybe an integration of acceleration compared to ??? ? My brain hurts.
But Marshall is right that his BSP index is based on the assumption that there are straights where he can slaughter an ST Civic. Not really the same argument that Eric is making about the course style, which is however, a related factor. Making all courses like this last one would result in index adjustments where the Evo would be classed in FSP where it belongs - LOL!
I bet the evo had an easier time than a C4 corvette which weighs 3450lbs (with driver) and has 250 hp. But I liked it none the less. Wish I could have taken the 4th run, I know I had a 51+ out there without question.Richard Jung wrote:Marshall Grice wrote:Will Kalman wrote:
Try an Evo on skinny street tires.
holy cow, a bsp c4 should weigh about 3100(with out driver) and make 325hp.Arthur Grant wrote: I bet the evo had an easier time than a C4 corvette which weighs 3450lbs (with driver) and has 250 hp. But I liked it none the less. Wish I could have taken the 4th run, I know I had a 51+ out there without question.
